Dake Bible Discussion BoardAngels - Will they Fall Again?

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macca
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Re: Angels - Will they Fall Again?

Post by macca »

Jay wrote:Thanks Macca, but you too, are using a future event and tying it into a past event. Rev. 12 is in the future and Satan's fall was in the past. We don't know exactly how many angels fell with Lucifer. It could have been less and it could have been more than a third. But, if we read ALL of Rev. 12 as a future event and not parts of it, we have to see that a third of the angels will fall in the future. I'm not trying to be disrespectful here. Just trying to understand why people take part of Rev 12 as past and part of it as future. What it all boils down to is "tradition". Someone taught this years ago and it was taken as gospel truth. Just like Paul's thorn in the flesh. Someone taught that it was an eye problem when the Bible NEVER teaches that. I think we have to be very careful about teaching what we have heard as opposed to what the Word actually says.

Anyway, I love you guys and appreciate all of your feedback here. We are all friends of Dake and brothers in Christ!

JayMc
macca wrote:
Jay wrote:There is something that I have pondered for many years now and would like to know what you guys think.

We know that angels fell and took women and the outcome was the giants in the land. The whole purpose was to cut off the blood line from which Christ would be born. I was taught in seminary and have always believed that it got so bad, that the only people left that did not have their blood infected by that of the giants, were Noah and his family. Therefore, it was an act of mercy for God to flood the earth and destroy all the other living beings so He could preserve the Godly blood line. Dake teaches that there were many tribes of people (Rephaim, Anakim, Emim, Zamzummim, etc.) that had their blood polluted with that of the giants. That is why the Hebrews were told to kill every living being.

We see David taking on Goliath and later, during his reign, Goliath's four brothers. With their deaths, the battle with the giants was finished. Fallen angels HAD to have been here AFTER the flood. Did more angels fall AFTER Noah's flood or were they still here from the original fall? We know that some of them are held in Tartarus until the day of judgment. The Book of Enoch sheds some light on this situation although it is not considered to be canonical.

2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1:6-7
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. [7] Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


Now, my question.

Rev. 12:4
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.


Every minister, including Dake, that I have ever heard comment on this passage of scripture throws it back to the time of Noah. But, it looks to me that this is a FUTURE event. Why would everything else in Revelation 12 be future tense and this one passage be past tense? Are more angels going to fall in the future, one third of them, in fact? If they do, it will not be to cut off the Godly blood line so what will be their purpose? How will they be manifest? Apparently, before, they could take on physical bodies if they were able to procreate with humans. If they are going to fall again, will they look like normal human beings? It really brings up a lot of questions but I do believe it is a future event.

JayMc


I will throw it back even further to the time that Satan rebelled in the first place,, Isa 14:12-15; Ezek. 28:11-19; and that is when Satan led a third of God's angels up to dethrone God.
Jesus said that He saw Satan fall like lightning to earth, ever since then he has been the Prince of the power of the air. He resides in the atmosphere with his fallen angels and principalities, powers,rulers of the darkness of this world, spiritual wickedness in high places... Eph.2:2; 6:12; Those that witheld Gabriel from answering Daniel's prayer for 21
days... and Michael had to help him out. Dan 10. 10:12-13;

Not every fallen angel left their first estate to cohabit with the daughters of man.

A third of the angels fell according to Rev 12:4; and in this verse they and satan are cast down to the earth and stuck here amoung men,, they are not permitted back into the air."atmosphere'.
The word stars also means that that is how much of the universe was corrupted by satan's rebellion, 1/3rd of the literal stars that were ruled by angels....Job. 38:7;
are tainted by rebelion and will be renewed like as the earth.,.Rev. 21-22: 2 Pet. 3:13; Isa. 65:17;
macca


point taken :angel:



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Ironman
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Re: Angels - Will they Fall Again?

Post by Ironman »

Hi mate. You wrote;
" We don't know exactly how many angels fell with Lucifer. It could have been less and it could have been more than a third. But, if we read ALL of Rev. 12 as a future event and not parts of it, we have to see that a third of the angels will fall in the future."
.

Scripture tells us that it was definately one third of God's angels that fell during the rebellion past, and this fact is only being reinforced that it was indeed one third that fell with Lucifer in Rev. 12:4. No Scripture that I can find teaches that any more fall in the future. One third fell in the past and were cast down to the earth, and this same one third will fight with lucifer against Christ in the future.


Rev. 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

This verse (4), is purely symbolic of the third of God's angels that rebelled with Lucifer (past), and is to show how many fallen angels are still and will be with him in the future war in Heaven under the 7th trumpet (V 4, 7-12).

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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branham1965
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Re: Angels - Will they Fall Again?

Post by branham1965 »

Was not one fall and destruction of the world enough?????Look what mankind ,the animal kingdom ...the Earth everything has went through because the fall of one archangel and his cohorts.then a man and his wife falls and dooms and damns all the rest of his innocent offspring!!!!what a miserable story!!!!i mean if they can fall again and again ...the devil is playing games with his Maker!!!!



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Ironman
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Re: Angels - Will they Fall Again?

Post by Ironman »

branham1965 wrote:Was not one fall and destruction of the world enough?????Look what mankind ,the animal kingdom ...the Earth everything has went through because the fall of one archangel and his cohorts.then a man and his wife falls and dooms and damns all the rest of his innocent offspring!!!!what a miserable story!!!!i mean if they can fall again and again ...the devil is playing games with his Maker!!!!
One sure is enough mate. This is what Dake wrote mate, and I'm going with him on this billy.
Dake notes; "This verse (4), is purely symbolic of the third of God's angels that rebelled with Lucifer (past), and is to show how many fallen angels are still and will be with him in the future war in Heaven under the 7th trumpet (V 4, 7-12)."
.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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Ironman
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Re: Angels - Will they Fall Again?

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branham1965 wrote:Was not one fall and destruction of the world enough?????Look what mankind ,the animal kingdom ...the Earth everything has went through because the fall of one archangel and his cohorts.then a man and his wife falls and dooms and damns all the rest of his innocent offspring!!!!what a miserable story!!!!i mean if they can fall again and again ...the devil is playing games with his Maker!!!!
The Bible clearly teaches one third of Gods angels fell and it is they and the devil who will make war with Jesus and it is they who will be cast into the lake of fire perpared for them forever.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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branham1965
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Re: Angels - Will they Fall Again?

Post by branham1965 »

Ironman wrote:
branham1965 wrote:Was not one fall and destruction of the world enough?????Look what mankind ,the animal kingdom ...the Earth everything has went through because the fall of one archangel and his cohorts.then a man and his wife falls and dooms and damns all the rest of his innocent offspring!!!!what a miserable story!!!!i mean if they can fall again and again ...the devil is playing games with his Maker!!!!
One sure is enough mate. This is what Dake wrote mate, and I'm going with him on this billy.
Dake notes; "This verse (4), is purely symbolic of the third of God's angels that rebelled with Lucifer (past), and is to show how many fallen angels are still and will be with him in the future war in Heaven under the 7th trumpet (V 4, 7-12)."
.

thanks Haz for that.you know the Book much better than me.i need to get back to it....sighs. :agrue:

im in a ...bad mood lets say.please pardon my crabbiness.sometimes it all gets to me.it about drives me nuts. +CrazyEyes +CrazyEyes +CrazyEyes +CrazyEyes +CrazyEyes



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macca
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Re: Angels - Will they Fall Again?

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My lovely wife tells me i am like that sometimes Billy... even the birds won't sing to me when i am grumpy.. duhhh +hammer



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Ironman
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Re: Angels - Will they Fall Again?

Post by Ironman »

macca wrote:My lovely wife tells me i am like that sometimes Billy... even the birds won't sing to me when i am grumpy.. duhhh +hammer
A man who loves Furgerson Tractors is always destined to be grumpy. I used to drive a furgerson tractor as a teenager at Laires Farm next to Weaklies flat bridge. Its a golf course and industrial estate now macca, you know it dont you?


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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Ironman
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Re: Angels - Will they Fall Again?

Post by Ironman »

macca wrote:My lovely wife tells me i am like that sometimes Billy... even the birds won't sing to me when i am grumpy.. duhhh +hammer
Driving old Furgeson Tractors in you youth makes a man grumpy in his old age. I drove one for a while as a teenager for Lairy who owned the farm south of Weakleas flat bridge. Its a golf course and industrial estate now macca. You know it dont you?


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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macca
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Re: Angels - Will they Fall Again?

Post by macca »

yep. our old T20 had a wheat bag for padding on the seat with a monkey wrench under it... i had callouses on my but-tocks, as forest would say.. Ha :mrgreen:



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