Dake Bible Discussion BoardHoly Spirit manifestations

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macca
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Holy Spirit manifestations

Post by macca »

Just read a good article by J Lee Grady in Charisma mag. Fire in my bones on fake manifestations in the prayer line,, pushing, slapping, shoving etc all that fleshy junk that robs God of the glory due to Him.
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bibleman
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Re: Holy Spirit manifestations

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macca wrote:Just read a good article by J Lee Grady in Charisma mag. Fire in my bones on fake manifestations in the prayer line,, pushing, slapping, shoving etc all that fleshy junk that robs God of the glory due to Him.
macca
Is this the article? If so GOOD WORD.
Please Stop the Holy Ghost Smackdown
J. Lee Grady Newsletters - Fire In My Bones

Do you want the real power of the Holy Spirit? Then don’t pretend by pushing people to the floor when you pray.

I love it when the Holy Spirit shows up in church gatherings. Whenever sinners are converted, backsliders repent, bodies are healed or self-centered believers are broken by God, we see evidence of the Spirit’s work. But I don’t appreciate it when people fabricate spiritual manifestations to prove God is using them.

A few years ago a popular charismatic preacher spoke at a meeting I attended at a church in Orlando, Fla. After his message he asked all ordained ministers to run to the platform so he could lay hands on them. Immediately this man’s team of beefy bodyguards began grabbing people, dragging them onto the stage and holding them in place until the evangelist could pray for everyone.

“We seem to have become masters of mixing the anointing with other ingredients. The charismatic movement has become an embarrassing mixture of flesh and spirit.”

I felt queasy about this spectacle. It resembled a charismatic version of World Wrestling Entertainment: lots of smacking noises, falling bodies and cheers from the excited crowd. We Christians seem to love a good show, even if it is staged!

I cringed as I watched the bizarre theatrics. But before I could move to the side of the auditorium, one of the evangelist’s 220-pound goons strong-armed me onto the platform. When I looked up, the wild-eyed preacher was heading toward me with his arms flailing. I tried to duck, but when he got close enough he shouted “in the name of Jesus” and slapped me across the face. I tumbled to the floor.

My face and neck were stinging with pain. I had not been slain in the spirit, as some observers assumed. I had been assaulted. This man used his own strength to make people think he had imparted a special anointing to me. All he did was give me a headache.

Because of this embarrassing smackdown, I decided I would never push people during prayer, not even gently, or do anything to manipulate the Holy Spirit’s power. I want the real thing. I don’t want to grieve the Holy Spirit by pretending.

Why do some Christians insist on pushing people during prayer? Some do it out of ignorance or because they have seen famous evangelists doing it. Others push to force spiritual results. They think if enough bodies end up on the floor, people will assume God showed up.

I know there are times when people can be so overcome by the Holy Spirit’s presence that they become weak in the knees. King David trembled in God’s presence, and the priests in Solomon’s day could not stand in the temple because of the heaviness of God’s glory (see 1 Kings 8:10-11). But there is absolutely no biblical precedent for forcing people to fall.

In Exodus 30:22-29, God gave Moses the recipe for the holy anointing oil that was to be used in the tabernacle. Each ingredient—cinnamon, myrrh, fragrant cane and cassia—had to be crushed first and then blended in olive oil. All five components represent Jesus, who was crushed for us. Moses was warned that the oil was never to be misused, nor were any ingredients to be left out or substituted.

God commands us never to cheapen the oil of the anointing, mix foreign substances into it, dilute it or create our own version of it. The Holy Spirit is holy! People in the Bible who tampered with the holy recipe (such as Aaron’s sons, Nadab and Abihu, who offered strange fire on God’s altar in Lev. 10:1-2) suffered serious consequences.

Today I fear we have blended the anointing with other ingredients. The charismatic movement has become an embarrassing mixture. Some preachers dangle God’s promises over people’s heads and offer elusive promises of prosperity "if people will call this number now and give a donation." Others fake certain body movements to make people think they are super-charged by God. Others mix exotic anointing oils (on sale now for only $12.99!) or they create anointed candles, suggesting that certain scents can trigger the Spirit’s power. This borders on witchcraft.

Please search your heart. Do you push people to the floor when you pray for them, rather than trusting the Lord to do His work? Are you trusting in Him, or in the arm of the flesh?

Have you lied to the Holy Ghost by faking the anointing? Have you mixed your own version of the anointing oil, adding exotic substances that are not of Christ? Have you become addicted to sensational experiences, always craving a sign yet never satisfied with Jesus alone?

How sad that a movement that began in the Spirit has wandered so far from the holiness of God. He sees through our charade. Let’s repent of our childishness, throw out the fake oils, stop making false claims, and quit abusing and manipulating people to make ourselves look spiritual.

J. LEE GRADY is contributing editor of Charisma. You can follow him on Twitter at leegrady. He is the author of several books including 10 Lies Men Believe and The Holy Spirit Is Not for Sale.

http://www.charismamag.com/index.php/fi ... -smackdown


God bless
Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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macca
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Re: Holy Spirit manifestations

Post by macca »

Yes Leon, that's it



Chris B

Re: Holy Spirit manifestations

Post by Chris B »

What has always struck me by these clear imitations is they are purported to be "moved by the Holy Ghost power," except for one thing....these "movements" are never consistent with the fruits of the Spirit; we never have to go farther than Ephesians to discover they are imitation. I submit they are under some influence, but it's not the Holy Spirit. Also, that this is "harmless" or a "choice of worship" to me is very scary, as Jesus points out there is only one thing that will not be forgiven in this life or the next, and that is to blasphemy the Holy Spirit, that is, to discount the workings of the Holy Spirit or to attribute the workings of the Holy Spirit to another. Granted, Jesus is clear, unless the strong man can bind the homeowner he cannot plunder his goods, and the Holy Spirit is stronger than demons so believers cannot rightly be possessed, but influenced. Through this dangerous ground of attributing an imitation of an infilling of the Holy Spirit to another spirit's influence, can open the doors some might not be able to get back from. Is this a risk someone is willing to take in order to make a "show?" This is not a simple choice of worship or harmless at all. I pray for these brothers and sisters with a fervency, that the Father may forgive them for they know not what they do and clearly do it out of ignorance. I fear my prayers at times may be too late for some. Lord God protect us from evil.



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Re: Holy Spirit manifestations

Post by Ironman »

Clearly the works of the devil. (1 John 3:8). Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Chris B

Re: Holy Spirit manifestations

Post by Chris B »

Amen mate! :mrgreen: Like Jesus would have went through what He had to go through and not "Git er all done!" Grace and peace to you!

:mrgreen: C.



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Jay
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Re: Holy Spirit manifestations

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Ironman wrote:Clearly the works of the devil. (1 John 3:8). Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil.
I totally agree! What gets me are "believers" that start snapping their head around. That seriously looks like demon possession. We've all seen the minister that used to be from Orlando and his antics. What an embarrassment to the body of Christ. I don't know if you guys know this or not, he "sold" his church here in Orlando. I have inside sources that know that for a fact. I have a problem with people "selling" churches.

JayMc


Hebrews 10:35-36
Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

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Jay
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Re: Holy Spirit manifestations

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bibleman wrote:
macca wrote:Just read a good article by J Lee Grady in Charisma mag. Fire in my bones on fake manifestations in the prayer line,, pushing, slapping, shoving etc all that fleshy junk that robs God of the glory due to Him.
macca
Is this the article? If so GOOD WORD.
Please Stop the Holy Ghost Smackdown
J. Lee Grady Newsletters - Fire In My Bones

http://www.charismamag.com/index.php/fi ... -smackdown
When I was going to Rhema, I worked for the Broken Arrow, Oklahoma police department as a jailer. I was the first Rhema student they hired and they DID NOT have a good opinion of Rhema students. The reason why is because the only ones that the policemen dealt with were the ones that caused trouble and many times it was people who had moved to Broken Arrow to attend Rhema but were not accepted into the school. Rhema typically accepted less than half of those who enrolled and they made it very clear that you should not move there until you had received an acceptance letter.

One story in particular, just before I moved to Oklahoma, was of a young father who was raising his 9 year old son. He moved to Broken Arrow thinking he was going to go to Rhema. Later, he was not accepted into the school, then he brutally murdered his young son and the security guards at Rhema found him breaking windows out with a hammer. Of course, the police just assumed he was a Rhema student when he wasn't.

I got to know the security guards at Rhema and eventually worked at Rhema as a security guard when I was out of school, summer breaks, spring break, holidays, etc. I would work from 3pm to 11pm at the jail then drive to Rhema, switch uniforms and work from 11pm to 7am. The man that heads up all of Rhema's security also heads up Benny Hinn's security, headed up Oral Roberts' security and many other major ministries. He told me some things that would be shocking to believers, mainly about Benny Hinn.

One of my cousins attended a church in Oklahoma City and she told me the story of when Hinn came to their church for a revival. One night, in the prayer and healing line, he prayed for a little old lady in her 80's and she fell. Then Hinn prayed for a large man next to the old lady. He fell too but he fell right on top of the woman. My cousin said the lady lay there for a long time screaming in pain and agony asking for help but Hinn kept telling people to leave her alone that it was the Holy Spirit moving on her. Well, the lady died! Apparently there was a lawsuit that was settled with the agreement that the family of the old woman could not divulge the settlement. Let me reiterate, that is a story I heard from my cousin. I did hear from the man I spoke of earlier that when Benny Hinn left Orlando to base his ministry in California, that he SOLD his church here in Orlando. The problem with that is, churches do NOT belong to ministers.

A guy I went to Rhema with kind of wigged out and I ended up pastoring his church for awhile. He told me once that he should be able to sell his church when he got ready to move on. He felt like all the work that he did establishing that church should have some kind of monetary payout.

I believe there is a Biblical example of being slain in the spirit. When the stone was rolled away from Jesus' tomb, the Roman soldiers fell "as dead men".

Matthew 28:4 The guards shook for fear of him and became like dead men.

Roman soldiers didn't just fall down. I was told once by a believer whom I respect highly that I should just yield to the Holy Spirit and go down. Well, God is big enough to knock me down and when He does, I won't have to "fall down" and I won't be able to stand up.

Oh, a little side note here, when I finally resigned my job at the police department to take my first pastorate, God had really surrounded me with favor. A Lieutenant that absolutely despised Rhema when I first started my job there, came to me and told me that from that moment on they would try to fill any jailer position with Rhema students!

JayMc


Hebrews 10:35-36
Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

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Jay
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Re: Holy Spirit manifestations

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dolph wrote:I was a catcher for a few years in word-faith church but never was slain in the Spirit myself. I asked the Lord about it one night after church and that night dreamed I was slain in the Spirit and couldn't wait to tell my friends after I got up. But it was only a dream and to this day I've never been slain in the Spirit.
When I was ordained through Rhema Ministerial Assoc. International, Brother Hagin and his wife Oretha, prayed over me and pushed! I was kind of surprised but I've never been down either. I do remember once when I prayed with my "spiritual mother" and I almost couldn't stand up because the anointing was so strong.


Hebrews 10:35-36
Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

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bibleman
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Re: Holy Spirit manifestations

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Jay wrote:
dolph wrote:I was a catcher for a few years in word-faith church but never was slain in the Spirit myself. I asked the Lord about it one night after church and that night dreamed I was slain in the Spirit and couldn't wait to tell my friends after I got up. But it was only a dream and to this day I've never been slain in the Spirit.
When I was ordained through Rhema Ministerial Assoc. International, Brother Hagin and his wife Oretha, prayed over me and pushed! I was kind of surprised but I've never been down either. I do remember once when I prayed with my "spiritual mother" and I almost couldn't stand up because the anointing was so strong.
I remember talking to a Voice of Healing evangelist Clifton Erickson a number of years ago. He is the evangelist who held the 30 day revival for Lester Sumrall in the Philippines after the little girl was delivered from devils, as Lester tells about in his "Bitten by Devils" book.

He told me that in the Voice of Healing Days people got healed but by enlarge nobody would "fall out." But in our day people "fall out" but nobody gets healed.


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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