Dake Bible Discussion BoardSaved by faith

General Discussion Forum devoted to the study of God's Word in Honor of Finis J. Dake.
Hill Top
Bless the Lord with All Thine Soul and Forget Not Who Satifieth Thy Mouth with Good Things
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Re: Saved by faith

Post by Hill Top » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:05 pm

luchnia wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:49 pm
Curious though, another question popped into my mind while pondering this subject. If it were grace alone, then man has no part in it and then it would be "forced" love from God.
That is indeed an interesting point.
The grace alone through faith camp always uses "alone" to try and refute the need for a total permanent repentance from sin and baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of past sins; much less enduring till the end..."for salvation".
The "alone" camp believes that salvation is assured instantly, well before the final judgement, so nothing they do "as a Christian" matters as an impediment to salvation.
They have no part in salvation, and have left everything in God's hands.
They are in for a rude awakening.



Grandfather
Abide in Him with His Words in You; Whatever You Ask Shall Be Done Unto You
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Re: Saved by faith

Post by Grandfather » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:30 pm

luchnia wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:49 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:52 am
So, what puzzles me is why people believe it is their actions that keep them saved? It is not even their actions and their assumption that grace makes up the difference. It is by His grace alone. It is by His grace that one's actions appear to be good, to begin with.
I see your point in this yet not sure I understand it that way.

My thought is that grace alone cannot save man since scripture does not separate grace from faith when pertaining to salvation. I could be wrong yet I think that it is impossible to obtain grace without faith because one would have to believe that grace exist before being able to accept it. That very belief is one of faith. One must have faith to get to grace and certainly remain in faith so that would mean that the action of man is faith and that faith is what is required to endure the long haul.

Curious though, another question popped into my mind while pondering this subject. If it were grace alone, then man has no part in it and then it would be "forced" love from God.
Indeed we are saved BY GRACE that is appropriated THRU FAITH and even appropriated faith IS A GIFT of God. Eph 2:8,9

There is nothing in the work of salvation man contributes unless one calls cooperating with the gift of God in responding to the call of God that work. If man contributed anything, he might find a reason to boast.



Hill Top
Bless the Lord with All Thine Soul and Forget Not Who Satifieth Thy Mouth with Good Things
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: Saved by faith

Post by Hill Top » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:36 pm

Grandfather wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:30 pm
luchnia wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:49 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:52 am
So, what puzzles me is why people believe it is their actions that keep them saved? It is not even their actions and their assumption that grace makes up the difference. It is by His grace alone. It is by His grace that one's actions appear to be good, to begin with.
I see your point in this yet not sure I understand it that way.

My thought is that grace alone cannot save man since scripture does not separate grace from faith when pertaining to salvation. I could be wrong yet I think that it is impossible to obtain grace without faith because one would have to believe that grace exist before being able to accept it. That very belief is one of faith. One must have faith to get to grace and certainly remain in faith so that would mean that the action of man is faith and that faith is what is required to endure the long haul.

Curious though, another question popped into my mind while pondering this subject. If it were grace alone, then man has no part in it and then it would be "forced" love from God.
Indeed we are saved BY GRACE that is appropriated THRU FAITH and even appropriated faith IS A GIFT of God. Eph 2:8,9

There is nothing in the work of salvation man contributes unless one calls cooperating with the gift of God in responding to the call of God that work. If man contributed anything, he might find a reason to boast.
That is exactly what what some have done.
But they ignore the fact that avoiding the, as you well put it, "cooperating with the gift of God in responding to the call of God work"...is also "work".
Ironic, eh?



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luchnia
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Re: Saved by faith

Post by luchnia » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:51 am

Grandfather wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:30 pm
Indeed we are saved BY GRACE that is appropriated THRU FAITH and even appropriated faith IS A GIFT of God. Eph 2:8,9
Sharing some questions based on the premise you made above. You state that even appropriated faith is a gift of God. From that statement it would seem that you take the word "it" in Eph 2:8 to mean faith. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"

How can you make "IT" in that verse mean faith? What if "IT" means grace and faith is a requirement of you doing something such as believing? Nothing in that verse denotes whether it is faith or grace that is the gift. Grace would fit better because God is love. One would have to assume it means faith or assume it means grace. Which is it?

Maybe if you take the preceding verses of that chapter you even come to a different meaning of what that gift of God is. Would the gift be the riches of His grace? The quickening? The raising up? His great love? Sitting together in heavenly places?

We know there is a measure of faith given to each man (even evil men have faith), but beyond that we know that in order for man to have the necessary faith he must hear the word of God which is a requirement that is placed on man and not on God. How is grace appropriated through faith? What level of faith is man required to have to receive grace?

Throw Romans 4:16 into the equation and you even increase the concept: "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,"

Notice the "therefore it is of faith" part of that verse which is the prerequisite in the case of Romans 4. Of course there is much more, but trying to keep this post brief as possible yet give more thought to how saving by God's mercy is granted to a man.


Word up!

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