Dake Bible Discussion BoardTHREE BAPTISMS

General Discussion Forum devoted to the study of God's Word in Honor of Finis J. Dake.
Post Reply
Hill Top
We Receive of Him, Because We Keep His Commandments
Posts: 925
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: THREE BAPTISMS

Post by Hill Top » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:33 pm

luchnia wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:25 am
So let me get this straight. The eight souls saved by water were somehow immersed in water and not saved FROM the water? I thought scripture showed them taken into the Ark and God protecting them FROM the water? I must have misunderstood how God saved them. He must have immersed them IN the water before saving them FROM the water.
The scripture doesn't say they were "immersed in water".
It says..."...while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us ... by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:'
Thanks be to God for the mechanisms that allow the washing away of our past sins and simultaneously killing the old man, burying him, and allowing us to be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
Thanks be to God for making it so we can be "in Christ", so His blood can be applied to us for our sanctification and justification.



User avatar
Spiritblade Disciple
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 4915
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:27 pm

Re: THREE BAPTISMS

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:24 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:30 pm
Macca said that "Salvation by water baptism is a doctrine of demons." And, you replied that "calling a work of God a doctrine of devils is blasphemy of the Holy Ghost."

So, it is a fact that Macca has blasphemed the Holy Ghost? Committed the unpardonable sin? No room for error in your judgment? No room for an exception? Macca is now irrevocably one of the Walking Damned?
Or, am I just badly misunderstanding you?
Hill Top wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:38 pm
What do you think?
Isn't calling a work of God a doctrine of devils blasphemy of the Holy Ghost?
Let's see his reason for such a bold statement.
I'll bet the Ethiopian eunuch would sure be interested in this.
And Philip, one of the seven, who baptized him, too.
What do I think? I think there's room for ignorance.

To my knowledge, blasphemy against the Holy Ghost refers to claiming that the Jesus cast out devils through the devil. A person could say anything they wanted about the Father or the Son and still not be irrevocably damned. But, speaking evil of the Spirit is another thing entirely.

A common teaching amongst those that do not recognize "salvation by water baptism" is that a human being is the agent performing the water baptism (such as Philip who water baptized the Ethiopian eunuch).

Do you have any scripture to show that the Holy Ghost is the agent that performs water baptism?

Now, if the doctrine that salvation is by water baptism is Holy Ghost inspired, then certainly calling it "a doctrine of demons" is quite dangerous.

Dake taught, based upon various scriptures, that even blasphemy against the Holy Ghost could be forgiven, if it was committed in ignorance. Would you agree with that? Do you think that is a biblically valid option?


Acts 10:42-43 King James Version
"And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He which was ordained of God to be the Judge of Quick and Dead. To Him give all the Prophets witness, that through His Name WHOSEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHALL RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS."

Hill Top
We Receive of Him, Because We Keep His Commandments
Posts: 925
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: THREE BAPTISMS

Post by Hill Top » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:10 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:24 pm
What do I think? I think there's room for ignorance.
Thanks for responding.
I pray to God you are correct.
To my knowledge, blasphemy against the Holy Ghost refers to claiming that the Jesus cast out devils through the devil. A person could say anything they wanted about the Father or the Son and still not be irrevocably damned. But, speaking evil of the Spirit is another thing entirely.
Personally, I believe they are all one being with differing manifestation, abilities, and duties.
A common teaching amongst those that do not recognize "salvation by water baptism" is that a human being is the agent performing the water baptism (such as Philip who water baptized the Ethiopian eunuch).
Salvation by water baptism is kind of a misnomer, as there is so much more involved than "just" water baptism.
But the person who does the baptizing can be any servant of God.
Who/what else would do it?
The baptism of the Holy Ghost is the gift given by God for a true repentance from sin. (Acts 2:38) God "does" it.
The baptism of the Holy Ghost is also the giving of the Comforter, and the seal of the inheritance, and the mind of Christ.
Do you have any scripture to show that the Holy Ghost is the agent that performs water baptism?
No.
Now, if the doctrine that salvation is by water baptism is Holy Ghost inspired, then certainly calling it "a doctrine of demons" is quite dangerous.
Baptism, in water, is commanded by the Lord Jesus in Mark 16:18.
But baptism without belief/faith and repentance from sin is useless,
Dake taught, based upon various scriptures, that even blasphemy against the Holy Ghost could be forgiven, if it was committed in ignorance. Would you agree with that? Do you think that is a biblically valid option?
I can agree with rev Dake, and I would like to see the scriptures he uses..
It is incumbent on us to immediately "educate" the blasphemer, for his own good.
If they persist...they are goners.

I think the same steps would apply to Paul's example of one who won't eat meats. (Rom 14)
If they think it is wrong, show them it isn't.
If they refuse the teachings, they refuse all teachings.
We are to be of one mind, and scripture can settle every difference of opinion...thanks be to God.



macca
Dake VIP Member
Dake VIP Member
Posts: 1310
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:37 am
Location: australia

Re: THREE BAPTISMS

Post by macca » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:27 am

Hill Top where is your rebuttal of the Apostle Paul for his statement in 1. Cor 1:17; For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel.......??????
and also 1 Cor. 15:1-11; where baptize is not included in Paul's gospel?????????



User avatar
Spiritblade Disciple
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 4915
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:27 pm

Re: THREE BAPTISMS

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:02 pm

macca wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:27 am
Hill Top where is your rebuttal of the Apostle Paul for his statement in 1. Cor 1:17; For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel.......??????
and also 1 Cor. 15:1-11; where baptize is not included in Paul's gospel?????????
This is a great point. If water baptism is necessary for salvation, why wouldn't Paul be sent to baptize?


Acts 10:42-43 King James Version
"And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He which was ordained of God to be the Judge of Quick and Dead. To Him give all the Prophets witness, that through His Name WHOSEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHALL RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS."

Hill Top
We Receive of Him, Because We Keep His Commandments
Posts: 925
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: THREE BAPTISMS

Post by Hill Top » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:57 pm

macca wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:27 am
Hill Top where is your rebuttal of the Apostle Paul for his statement in 1. Cor 1:17; For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel.......??????
I see no reason for the necessity of a rebuttal.
Paul's main mission was to make folks aware that Christ had died for their past sins.
Everything else was supplemental.
Repentance from sin is necessary for salvation, but it is part of the message for those who take joy in the fact a Savior is available to them.
Receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost is necessary for salvation too, but is part of a second level of teaching after the men were introduced to the grace of God.
and also 1 Cor. 15:1-11; where baptize is not included in Paul's gospel?????????\
What would be the point, if the folks showed no interest in serving God?
One step a time.
We, and Paul, have to have an "opener" in order to proceed with the details.



macca
Dake VIP Member
Dake VIP Member
Posts: 1310
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:37 am
Location: australia

Re: THREE BAPTISMS

Post by macca » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:14 am

Ed has resurrected :mrgreen:



User avatar
luchnia
May God Who Ministereth Seed to the Sower Increase the Fruits of Your Righteousness
Posts: 1514
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:01 am

Re: THREE BAPTISMS

Post by luchnia » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:19 am

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:02 pm
macca wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:27 am
Hill Top where is your rebuttal of the Apostle Paul for his statement in 1. Cor 1:17; For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel.......??????
and also 1 Cor. 15:1-11; where baptize is not included in Paul's gospel?????????
This is a great point. If water baptism is necessary for salvation, why wouldn't Paul be sent to baptize?
Good question.

I know a man that believes water baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation. I think he puts it this way, if you are not water baptized, you are not saved. So he damns all that died in Christ after Jesus' death as unsaved to eternal torments if they did not get water baptized.

He is much more adamant than Mr. Hilltop is about water baptism. At least Mr. Hilltop only believes water baptism remits past sins. I have known this other fellow for about 2-3 years now. He is also a legalist as well, which you sometimes find with those that confuse the immersion into Christ' death, burial, and resurrection with the outward signification of water baptism. He also maintains that you must follow the commandments, but when asked which commandments, he avoids the answer by skirting the question.

Not all water baptism advocates fit the legalist mold. I know two more guys that are die-hard legalist, but they are not water baptism remits sins advocates even though they push the old law. One is so OT minded that he refuses to be open to NT scriptures that refute his doctrine.

It is very interesting how the erroneous "water baptism to be saved" doctrine developed, yet seems from observation that it does stem from the legalist mindset. One thing is for sure. There are all sorts of yokes of bondage one can attempt to place upon others and this is simply one of many that I have witnessed.


Word up!

User avatar
branham1965
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 6392
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:18 am

Re: THREE BAPTISMS

Post by branham1965 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:10 am

:mrgreen: :lol!:


macca wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:14 am
Ed has resurrected :mrgreen:



User avatar
luchnia
May God Who Ministereth Seed to the Sower Increase the Fruits of Your Righteousness
Posts: 1514
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:01 am

Re: THREE BAPTISMS

Post by luchnia » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:52 am

macca wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:14 am
Ed has resurrected :mrgreen:
Ok, I give. Who is Ed?


Word up!

Post Reply