Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Glorified ?

[Hill Top]

Was reading John at dinner tonight and saw this..."(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)" (John 7:39)
When was Jesus "glorified"?
Was it at the resurrection, or at His ascension into heaven?
Or later?
I'm going with ascension, after which the Holy Ghost was given to the repentant.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

Just as the word "saved" can refer to different things and/or have different meanings in different contexts, so too can the word "glorified."

In this context, I think it refers to the ascension, after which Pentecost followed and the disciples were filled with the Spirit in the upper room.

But, in another context, He was glorified, before this, when Judas left to betray Him. See John 13:31. He was also glorified in teaching (Luke 4:15) and when Lazarus was raised from the dead (John 11:4).

[Grandfather]

Just as the word "saved" can refer to different things and/or have different meanings in different contexts, so too can the word "glorified."

In this context, I think it refers to the ascension, after which Pentecost followed and the disciples were filled with the Spirit in the upper room.

But, in another context, He was glorified, before this, when Judas left to betray Him. See John 13:31. He was also glorified in teaching (Luke 4:15) and when Lazarus was raised from the dead (John 11:4).

The following is from Dake’s notes on this passage. As of this moment I see no reason to disagree with the premise that Dake is putting forth.

This is Christ’s explanation that the rivers of living water refer to the fullness of the Holy Spirit that was to be given to all men after He became glorified (Act 2:33, Act 2:38-39). See note, Joh 3:34. This is a prophecy of the same thing Joel spoke about (cp. Joe 2:28 with Act 2:1-21).

[Spiritblade Disciple]

Agreed, Grandfather.

Though, He was "glorified" at other times before the Acts 2 Pentecost, the glorification under discussion is talking about the event preceding the Holy Ghost being given on that Pentecost.

[Hill Top]

Agreed, Grandfather.

Though, He was "glorified" at other times before the Acts 2 Pentecost, the glorification under discussion is talking about the event preceding the Holy Ghost being given on that Pentecost.

That is correct, regarding the "timing" of the giving of the gift of the Holy Ghost, but the root of my question regards John 20:22..."And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:"

I have always believed that the giving of the gift of the Holy Ghost occurred on the day of Pentecost, and was accompanied by the gift of tongues.
That was after the ascension, while John 20:22 was before it.

I have never been able to figure out the real meaning of John 20:22.
Did Jesus just mean "get ready to receive the the gift "later"...?
And on the day of Pentecost, the gift of tongues was just the evidence of already having received the Holy Spirit previously?
What do you think?

Personally, I received the gift of tongues two days after having received the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

That is correct, regarding the "timing" of the giving of the gift of the Holy Ghost, but the root of my question regards John 20:22..."And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:"

The Holy Ghost can and is given in different ways, at different times, for different purposes, and with different measures. This occurrence in John 20:22 is to give the disciples authority to forgive or retain sin. Also, it probably included reassurance to drive out their fear and to prepare them for the coming Pentecost.

[Grandfather]

Agreed, Grandfather.

Though, He was "glorified" at other times before the Acts 2 Pentecost, the glorification under discussion is talking about the event preceding the Holy Ghost being given on that Pentecost.

That is correct, regarding the "timing" of the giving of the gift of the Holy Ghost, but the root of my question regards John 20:22..."And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:"

I have always believed that the giving of the gift of the Holy Ghost occurred on the day of Pentecost, and was accompanied by the gift of tongues.
That was after the ascension, while John 20:22 was before it.

I have never been able to figure out the real meaning of John 20:22.
Did Jesus just mean "get ready to receive the the gift "later"...?
And on the day of Pentecost, the gift of tongues was just the evidence of already having received the Holy Spirit previously?
What do you think?

Personally, I received the gift of tongues two days after having received the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Brother Hagin explained it as follows.

Everyone that is saved has been sealed with the Holy Spirit.
But there is a difference between being sealed by the Spirit and being baptized in the Spirit.
The latter is obtaining the Spirit without measure.

When Jesus breathed on the disciples in John 20 - they, the disciples, were "saved" at that point.
When the Day of Pentecost came, they received the Spirit without measure.

He gave an abundance of scriptures to support that position. I'm sorry I do not have them to share with you at this time, but I trust you were well versed enough in scripture to dig them out on your own.

I hope this helps, it made. sense to me.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

Brother Hagin explained it as follows.

Everyone that is saved has been sealed with the Holy Spirit.
But there is a difference between being sealed by the Spirit and being baptized in the Spirit.
The latter is obtaining the Spirit without measure.

When Jesus breathed on the disciples in John 20 - they, the disciples, were "saved" at that point.
When the Day of Pentecost came, they received the Spirit without measure.

He gave an abundance of scriptures to support that position. I'm sorry I do not have them to share with you at this time, but I trust you were well versed enough in scripture to dig them out on your own.

I hope this helps, it made. sense to me.

I really appreciate Hagin's view on this. When I first started digging into Dake's material, I didn't realize how differently Dake believed concerning salvation than Hagin did. Comparing and contrasting the differences can make for a great learning experience. And, to think that theirs' aren't the only two views!

[Grandfather]

I really appreciate Hagin's view on this. When I first started digging into Dake's material, I didn't realize how differently Dake believed concerning salvation than Hagin did. Comparing and contrasting the differences can make for a great learning experience. And, to think that theirs' aren't the only two views!

Would you call the understanding of this “glorification” a salvation issue?

[Spiritblade Disciple]

I really appreciate Hagin's view on this. When I first started digging into Dake's material, I didn't realize how differently Dake believed concerning salvation than Hagin did. Comparing and contrasting the differences can make for a great learning experience. And, to think that theirs' aren't the only two views!

Would you call the understanding of this “glorification” a salvation issue?

Not "this glorification," no.

Hagin's understanding of what happened in John 20 when Jesus breathed on the disciples does pertain to how he understood salvation.