Dake Bible Discussion BoardThey are Trying to Get People Saved... NOT Damn Them to Hell!

General Discussion Forum devoted to the study of God's Word in Honor of Finis J. Dake.
Hill Top
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Re: They are Trying to Get People Saved... NOT Damn Them to Hell!

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:47 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:08 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:18 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:27 pm
GOD the Father,GOD the Son,and GOD the Holy Ghost are working to get souls into THE KINGDOM,THEY ARE TRYING TO GET PEOPLE SAVED BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS NOT DAMN THEM TO HELL!!
If the gospel is his it is hid to them that are lost.IN WHOM the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ who is the image of God should shine unto them.2 Corinthians 4:3-4.
The thief is the one who steals,kills and destroys.John 10:10
The Lord Jesus Christ wants people to be saved.1 Timothy 2;2 Peter 3:9
JESUS is waiting for the precious fruit of the earth and he hath long patience for it.James 5:7
Do you think that They are good at getting people saved? Especially, considering the comparatively few that are saved versus those who are damned?
Saving folks isn't something They "do", it is something He equips us to do.
But men are given the choice of salvation, and few value it enough to give up their previous lives for it.
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:18 pm
There's a saying... Calvinists believe that God is powerful enough to get everyone saved and knows how, but doesn't want to save everyone. Arminians believe that God wants to save everyone but lacks the ability and/or the know how to do so.
Concerning those that are lost... Is it because They didn't have the ability or the know how to get them saved? Both? Neither? Could they have created a world wherein they would have been more successful in saving an higher percentage of people?
Neither.
Neither takes into account the free will of men.

I think if you'll look into it, you'll find that the free will of men is included in the Arminian side.
I'm not interested in either POV, so didn't examine them closely.
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:47 pm
As placing the responsibility of saving people onto humans... How effective does that seem to be in your perspective?
Very effective, as nobody hears the word without some one telling them about it.
Faith cometh by hearing, and saying.
Men have been directly involved with every conversion.

If the effectiveness is being measured only by the amount of converts...miserably.
But God did say "few would be saved".



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luchnia
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Re: They are Trying to Get People Saved... NOT Damn Them to Hell!

Post by luchnia »

branham1965 wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:35 am
:morning:

luchnia

What is unscriptural about what i said?

During the Healing Revival a prominent preacher had a 20,000 seat tent.A Texas tornado came a blew the tent away.This preacher told Brother Hagin " i don't know whether God or the devil blew my tent away. :shocked!:

A pastor friend had a church burn down.He told Brother Hagin " i dont know whether God or the devil burned my church down.

In both cases Brother Hagin said he was shocked to hear them say this.
He thought to himself in both incidents God is not out blowing Gospel tents down HE is helping people put them up!!
God is not burning churches down HE is helping people build them!!!




luchnia wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:49 am
They are Trying to Get People Saved... NOT Damn Them to Hell!

This title is a bit confusing to me, but my assumption is we are we going by this statement which would be somewhat controversial from a biblical perspective. "GOD the Father,GOD the Son,and GOD the Holy Ghost are working to get souls into THE KINGDOM,THEY ARE TRYING TO GET PEOPLE SAVED BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS NOT DAMN THEM TO HELL!!"
The first thing that I don't believe the bible teaches is, "...trying to get people saved..." It seems odd that the Godhead "tries" to do anything. Maybe I am wrong here or simply misunderstanding what you mean, but I cannot think of anything God tries to do. From what I can tell he has always done what He says, or at least changes His mind, but never seems that He simply tries.


Word up!

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: They are Trying to Get People Saved... NOT Damn Them to Hell!

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Hill Top wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:16 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:47 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:08 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:18 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:27 pm
GOD the Father,GOD the Son,and GOD the Holy Ghost are working to get souls into THE KINGDOM,THEY ARE TRYING TO GET PEOPLE SAVED BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS NOT DAMN THEM TO HELL!!
If the gospel is his it is hid to them that are lost.IN WHOM the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ who is the image of God should shine unto them.2 Corinthians 4:3-4.
The thief is the one who steals,kills and destroys.John 10:10
The Lord Jesus Christ wants people to be saved.1 Timothy 2;2 Peter 3:9
JESUS is waiting for the precious fruit of the earth and he hath long patience for it.James 5:7
Do you think that They are good at getting people saved? Especially, considering the comparatively few that are saved versus those who are damned?
Saving folks isn't something They "do", it is something He equips us to do.
But men are given the choice of salvation, and few value it enough to give up their previous lives for it.
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:18 pm
There's a saying... Calvinists believe that God is powerful enough to get everyone saved and knows how, but doesn't want to save everyone. Arminians believe that God wants to save everyone but lacks the ability and/or the know how to do so.
Concerning those that are lost... Is it because They didn't have the ability or the know how to get them saved? Both? Neither? Could they have created a world wherein they would have been more successful in saving an higher percentage of people?
Neither.
Neither takes into account the free will of men.

I think if you'll look into it, you'll find that the free will of men is included in the Arminian side.
I'm not interested in either POV, so didn't examine them closely.
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:47 pm
As placing the responsibility of saving people onto humans... How effective does that seem to be in your perspective?
Very effective, as nobody hears the word without some one telling them about it.
Faith cometh by hearing, and saying.
Men have been directly involved with every conversion.

If the effectiveness is being measured only by the amount of converts...miserably.
But God did say "few would be saved".
Do you believe that God knew that the outcome would be that so few would be saved when He chose to create things as He did? Do you believe that He is surprised by this outcome?


John 14:21 New King James Version
"He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: They are Trying to Get People Saved... NOT Damn Them to Hell!

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Ironman wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:11 am
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:33 pm
Ironman wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:18 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:38 pm
Ironman wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:40 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:08 pm
Ironman wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:36 pm
God has also provided a way for those who have never ever heard of Him or Jesus or the gospel.
Interesting.

So, you believe that individuals can be good enough to get to Heaven without the Gospel?
Yes, why? Because Paul said so;

Paul stated in Rom. 2:12-16 that God will do right by every man according to the light they have recieved.

He said, "For as many as have sinned without the law shall also perish without law: and as many have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these having not the law, are a law unto themselves: which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the meanwhile accusing or excusing one another. In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Read it again and let it sink in!

Romans 2:12-16,

12, For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13, (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14, For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15, Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16, In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
How do you balance your understanding of that with Galatians 3:21-22?
I don't, and I don't have to. I believe what Paul taught. Men who have not heard of God, Jesus or the Gospel will be judged by the way they lived in the society they were born into and by what is in their hearts, minds and souls. I knew good from bad, love and evil long before I ever heard of God, Jesus or the Word of God. I knew how to live honestly and caringly and obediently before I learnt about God. I'm still learning about God. God's ways are written in my heart. I don't need a book or men to tell me right from wrong.

How do you think God will judge the billions of people who have lived in times past and now, and into the future in Africa, India, China, South America and other far away places who have never even heard the name Jesus Christ, yet they led productive full lives only doing what was good for the community they grew up in? Do you believe God will dam them to eternal Hell?
I don't know that any did do *only* what was good for the community. My Bible says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Furthermore, my Bible says that God has concluded all to be under sin. Thus, their adherence to the law of their conscience will not be enough.

Dake taught that "Their keeping the law by nature proves they have the law written in their hearts. The conscience bears witness of obedience or condemns for disobedience, proving God has not left people without light sufficient to justify or condemn in the judgment (Rom. 2:15-16). It does not say here that keeping the law, or doing by nature what the law requires, saves the soul in either case. People have to be born again in addition to this to be saved."

Do you believe that people can be born again without believing the Gospel?
We can either believe what Paul said or not. I believe what Paul says in the inspired written Word of God.
I cannot argue with that. I would only point out that Paul wrote much more than only that portion of Romans 2.

I have learned that there are those that believe that people can indeed be born again without ever hearing the Gospel. These people believe that conversion is separate from being born again and that people do good things because they are born again and people do bad things because they are not. Thus, good people go to Heaven and bad people go to Hell.


John 14:21 New King James Version
"He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: They are Trying to Get People Saved... NOT Damn Them to Hell!

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

branham1965 wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:03 am
" For what have i to do to judge them that are without?do not ye judge them that are within?But them that are without God judgeth".
1 Corinthians 5:12-13a

I was taught that people will be judged according to the light they have as Ironman is saying.And i also was taught later in Akron that the Gospel must be believed and Christ received to be saved.And that these people in heathen lands are lost.

" Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?" Genesis 18:25

I know that He will do right on Judgement Day.
Indeed, I am sure that He always does right.

I was taught that everybody needs to believe on Christ to be saved and that the people in heathen lands are lost, too.


John 14:21 New King James Version
"He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: They are Trying to Get People Saved... NOT Damn Them to Hell!

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

branham1965 wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:20 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:18 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:27 pm
GOD the Father,GOD the Son,and GOD the Holy Ghost are working to get souls into THE KINGDOM,THEY ARE TRYING TO GET PEOPLE SAVED BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS NOT DAMN THEM TO HELL!!
If the gospel is his it is hid to them that are lost.IN WHOM the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ who is the image of God should shine unto them.2 Corinthians 4:3-4.
The thief is the one who steals,kills and destroys.John 10:10
The Lord Jesus Christ wants people to be saved.1 Timothy 2;2 Peter 3:9
JESUS is waiting for the precious fruit of the earth and he hath long patience for it.James 5:7
Do you think that They are good at getting people saved? Especially, considering the comparatively few that are saved versus those who are damned?

There's a saying... Calvinists believe that God is powerful enough to get everyone saved and knows how, but doesn't want to save everyone. Arminians believe that God wants to save everyone but lacks the ability and/or the know how to do so.

Concerning those that are lost... Is it because They didn't have the ability or the know how to get them saved? Both? Neither? Could they have created a world wherein they would have been more successful in saving an higher percentage of people?
According to David Daniels @Jack Chick publications
6% of Americans hold a Biblical world view. :shocked!:
For our millennials its 2%.
Its down from 12% in the 1990's.
I do not know the figures for Great Britain ,Europe and Australia.
I do believe the Lord has the Gospel message going into many nations even in the Arab middle east and Africa.
Television and the internet are ministering the truth and holding forth the word of life - Philippians 1:16 to the people of the nations.So many of these people do not own a Bible or New Testament. :agrue:

How do i say this.I think that when we are strong in the Lord we can by the grace of God get people born again and coming to church.
I hear Rev.Rod Parsley say the intellectual part of this is for entertainment.It takes the Power of the Holy Ghost and the anointing to set the captives free.
That is why Pentecostal ,Charismatic,Word of Faith,Full Gospel are the second largest branch of Christianity now.
Brazil has the most Pentecostal Full Gospel believers in the world.
The Chinese under ground church prays for us here.
Pastor Parsley is for higher education, too. He has encouraged folks to get their doctorates.
Also, did you know that his favorite preacher of all time is a Calvinist? His favorite preacher is Charles Haddon Spurgeon.


John 14:21 New King James Version
"He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

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branham1965
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Re: They are Trying to Get People Saved... NOT Damn Them to Hell!

Post by branham1965 »

I have seen lists with Spurgeon behind the Apostle Paul as the prince of preachers. :scatter:
What a blessing it would be to go back and hear him at the Metropolitan tabernacle.
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:45 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:20 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:18 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:27 pm
GOD the Father,GOD the Son,and GOD the Holy Ghost are working to get souls into THE KINGDOM,THEY ARE TRYING TO GET PEOPLE SAVED BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS NOT DAMN THEM TO HELL!!
If the gospel is his it is hid to them that are lost.IN WHOM the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ who is the image of God should shine unto them.2 Corinthians 4:3-4.
The thief is the one who steals,kills and destroys.John 10:10
The Lord Jesus Christ wants people to be saved.1 Timothy 2;2 Peter 3:9
JESUS is waiting for the precious fruit of the earth and he hath long patience for it.James 5:7
Do you think that They are good at getting people saved? Especially, considering the comparatively few that are saved versus those who are damned?

There's a saying... Calvinists believe that God is powerful enough to get everyone saved and knows how, but doesn't want to save everyone. Arminians believe that God wants to save everyone but lacks the ability and/or the know how to do so.

Concerning those that are lost... Is it because They didn't have the ability or the know how to get them saved? Both? Neither? Could they have created a world wherein they would have been more successful in saving an higher percentage of people?
According to David Daniels @Jack Chick publications
6% of Americans hold a Biblical world view. :shocked!:
For our millennials its 2%.
Its down from 12% in the 1990's.
I do not know the figures for Great Britain ,Europe and Australia.
I do believe the Lord has the Gospel message going into many nations even in the Arab middle east and Africa.
Television and the internet are ministering the truth and holding forth the word of life - Philippians 1:16 to the people of the nations.So many of these people do not own a Bible or New Testament. :agrue:

How do i say this.I think that when we are strong in the Lord we can by the grace of God get people born again and coming to church.
I hear Rev.Rod Parsley say the intellectual part of this is for entertainment.It takes the Power of the Holy Ghost and the anointing to set the captives free.
That is why Pentecostal ,Charismatic,Word of Faith,Full Gospel are the second largest branch of Christianity now.
Brazil has the most Pentecostal Full Gospel believers in the world.
The Chinese under ground church prays for us here.
Pastor Parsley is for higher education, too. He has encouraged folks to get their doctorates.
Also, did you know that his favorite preacher of all time is a Calvinist? His favorite preacher is Charles Haddon Spurgeon.



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branham1965
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Re: They are Trying to Get People Saved... NOT Damn Them to Hell!

Post by branham1965 »

SBD,

I notice you mention the proportion of saved to lost a lot.it a lot.No offence meant.I have had problems with it as well.
I can't believe mortal man would be more just and moral than the LORD.
Some giants in the early Pentecostal movement believed in soul sleep.Charles Parham was one.Others taught a type of Russellism - that the unsaved dead would be on probation in the 1,000 year reign of Christ.
The anthropology of man,the state of the dead between death and the coming of Jesus,this is tough stuff i think.

I have a solid book called Systematic Theology by Wayne Grudem.It caught my eyes because Dr.Jack Hayford :angel: endorsed it.
It has loads interesting stuff in it.He has some creeds and confessions of faith in it too.

+dove

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:35 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:16 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:47 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:08 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:18 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:27 pm
GOD the Father,GOD the Son,and GOD the Holy Ghost are working to get souls into THE KINGDOM,THEY ARE TRYING TO GET PEOPLE SAVED BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS NOT DAMN THEM TO HELL!!
If the gospel is his it is hid to them that are lost.IN WHOM the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ who is the image of God should shine unto them.2 Corinthians 4:3-4.
The thief is the one who steals,kills and destroys.John 10:10
The Lord Jesus Christ wants people to be saved.1 Timothy 2;2 Peter 3:9
JESUS is waiting for the precious fruit of the earth and he hath long patience for it.James 5:7
Do you think that They are good at getting people saved? Especially, considering the comparatively few that are saved versus those who are damned?
Saving folks isn't something They "do", it is something He equips us to do.
But men are given the choice of salvation, and few value it enough to give up their previous lives for it.
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:18 pm
There's a saying... Calvinists believe that God is powerful enough to get everyone saved and knows how, but doesn't want to save everyone. Arminians believe that God wants to save everyone but lacks the ability and/or the know how to do so.
Concerning those that are lost... Is it because They didn't have the ability or the know how to get them saved? Both? Neither? Could they have created a world wherein they would have been more successful in saving an higher percentage of people?
Neither.
Neither takes into account the free will of men.

I think if you'll look into it, you'll find that the free will of men is included in the Arminian side.
I'm not interested in either POV, so didn't examine them closely.
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:47 pm
As placing the responsibility of saving people onto humans... How effective does that seem to be in your perspective?
Very effective, as nobody hears the word without some one telling them about it.
Faith cometh by hearing, and saying.
Men have been directly involved with every conversion.

If the effectiveness is being measured only by the amount of converts...miserably.
But God did say "few would be saved".
Do you believe that God knew that the outcome would be that so few would be saved when He chose to create things as He did? Do you believe that He is surprised by this outcome?



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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: They are Trying to Get People Saved... NOT Damn Them to Hell!

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

branham1965 wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:54 pm
SBD,

I notice you mention the proportion of saved to lost a lot.it a lot.No offence meant.I have had problems with it as well.
I can't believe mortal man would be more just and moral than the LORD.
Some giants in the early Pentecostal movement believed in soul sleep.Charles Parham was one.Others taught a type of Russellism - that the unsaved dead would be on probation in the 1,000 year reign of Christ.
The anthropology of man,the state of the dead between death and the coming of Jesus,this is tough stuff i think.

I have a solid book called Systematic Theology by Wayne Grudem.It caught my eyes because Dr.Jack Hayford :angel: endorsed it.
It has loads interesting stuff in it.He has some creeds and confessions of faith in it too.

+dove
Sounds like an interesting book, Billy.

Were you ever taught that no one deserved to be saved?


John 14:21 New King James Version
"He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

User avatar
branham1965
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Re: They are Trying to Get People Saved... NOT Damn Them to Hell!

Post by branham1965 »

Yes i was.
My Pastor in Warren let us have it with both barrels in every service.

We were saved by GRACE through FAITH not of ourselves it is the GIFT OF GOD not of works lest any man should boast.Eph.2
Without Jesus we can do nothing. John 15.

I remember when i discovered CHICK TRACTS.The little Gospel comic book tracts.

I bought a bunch of them and read them like a little kid in a comic book store.

The book for new converts was called the NEXT STEP.Chick drew an illustrated comic book of Charles Finneys book on revival called the LAST CALL.

In the how to witness section he gives the ROMAN ROAD.
Romans 3:10 to Romans 3:23 to Romans 5:12 to Romans 5:8 to Romans 6:23 to Romans 10:13 then to Rev.3:20 and finally Romans 10:9-10.
Why do you ask by the way? :scrambleup:



Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:36 am
branham1965 wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:54 pm
SBD,

I notice you mention the proportion of saved to lost a lot.it a lot.No offence meant.I have had problems with it as well.
I can't believe mortal man would be more just and moral than the LORD.
Some giants in the early Pentecostal movement believed in soul sleep.Charles Parham was one.Others taught a type of Russellism - that the unsaved dead would be on probation in the 1,000 year reign of Christ.
The anthropology of man,the state of the dead between death and the coming of Jesus,this is tough stuff i think.

I have a solid book called Systematic Theology by Wayne Grudem.It caught my eyes because Dr.Jack Hayford :angel: endorsed it.
It has loads interesting stuff in it.He has some creeds and confessions of faith in it too.

+dove
Sounds like an interesting book, Billy.

Were you ever taught that no one deserved to be saved?
Last edited by branham1965 on Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:05 am, edited 2 times in total.



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