Dake Bible Discussion BoardWHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING PERFECT?

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Hill Top
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Re: WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING PERFECT?

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 11:48 am
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 3:21 pm
If there is no such thing as Original/Ancestral/Inbred Sin, why was the Virgin Birth necessary?
Hill Top wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:58 pm
To fulfill a prophesy that the Lord would come from a virgin. (Isa 7:14)
So, in your belief, all are born holy, innocent, blameless, and sinless.
Agreed.
Yet, many die in a state that most would call innocence.
If there's no reason that they deserve to die, how can they die?
Without Original Sin, their deaths are unjust.
Isn't "death" unjust?
Scripture says Adam's sin brought death
It doesn't say we will pay for his sin.



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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: Why Was the Virgin Birth Necessary?

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Hill Top wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:28 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 11:46 am
1 Corinthians 15:21-22 New King James Version
For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
Hill Top wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:58 pm
By Adam came death.
Where does it mention any kind of sin?
It's clearly implied given death. The wages of sin is death. If someone dies, they are being paid the wages of sin.
As all but Jesus have committed a sin, all will die...for their own sin.
We don't pay with death for Adam's sin.


Interesting.

I understand that we participated in Adam's sin in the same manner that Levi paid tithes in Abraham around 400 or so years before Levi was born. Thus we bear responsibility and guilt for Adam's sin.
And, Adam's sin is our own.


1 Corinthians 15:21-22 New King James Version
For since by man came death,
by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die,
even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING PERFECT?

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Hill Top wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:33 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 11:48 am
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 3:21 pm
If there is no such thing as Original/Ancestral/Inbred Sin, why was the Virgin Birth necessary?
Hill Top wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:58 pm
To fulfill a prophesy that the Lord would come from a virgin. (Isa 7:14)
So, in your belief, all are born holy, innocent, blameless, and sinless.
Agreed.
Yet, many die in a state that most would call innocence.
If there's no reason that they deserve to die, how can they die?
Without Original Sin, their deaths are unjust.
Isn't "death" unjust?
Scripture says Adam's sin brought death
It doesn't say we will pay for his sin.
Death isn't unjust when it is the payment of wages that were earned. It would be wrong to withhold death from the one who earned it.

If we don't die for Adam's sin (which, in my view was our sin, too), then how can Christ have died for us and how shall we live by His life?


1 Corinthians 15:21-22 New King James Version
For since by man came death,
by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die,
even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

Hill Top
The Froward is Abomination to the Lord
Posts: 1660
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Re: Why Was the Virgin Birth Necessary?

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:43 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:28 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 11:46 am
1 Corinthians 15:21-22 New King James Version
For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
Hill Top wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:58 pm
By Adam came death.
Where does it mention any kind of sin?
It's clearly implied given death. The wages of sin is death. If someone dies, they are being paid the wages of sin.
As all but Jesus have committed a sin, all will die...for their own sin.
We don't pay with death for Adam's sin.
Interesting.
I understand that we participated in Adam's sin in the same manner that Levi paid tithes in Abraham around 400 or so years before Levi was born. Thus we bear responsibility and guilt for Adam's sin.
And, Adam's sin is our own.
That is an interesting concept, but I find the two scenarios quite different.
One was an example for the Jews to follow, whereas the other leaves no choice for adherents.
We bear no guilt for another's sins.



Hill Top
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Re: WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING PERFECT?

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:46 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:33 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 11:48 am
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 3:21 pm
If there is no such thing as Original/Ancestral/Inbred Sin, why was the Virgin Birth necessary?
Hill Top wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:58 pm
To fulfill a prophesy that the Lord would come from a virgin. (Isa 7:14)
So, in your belief, all are born holy, innocent, blameless, and sinless.
Agreed.
Yet, many die in a state that most would call innocence.
If there's no reason that they deserve to die, how can they die?
Without Original Sin, their deaths are unjust.
Isn't "death" unjust?
Scripture says Adam's sin brought death
It doesn't say we will pay for his sin.
Death isn't unjust when it is the payment of wages that were earned. It would be wrong to withhold death from the one who earned it.
We didn't do Adam's sin, so don't earn death for it.
We are only condemned for our own sins.
If we don't die for Adam's sin (which, in my view was our sin, too), then how can Christ have died for us and how shall we live by His life?
We die for our own sins: that is enough reason for our death.
BTW, death couldn't hold Jesus, or He would not have been restored to life.
We shall live by His life by our repentance from sin and water baptism in His name for the remission of past sins.
Joined together with Him by that water baptism, in His death, burial, and resurrected together with Him to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-7)

It is written..."And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
(Rom 8:10-13)
Living after the flesh garners to death.
Sinners live after the flesh.
They all die for their own sins.



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branham1965
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Re: WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING PERFECT?

Post by branham1965 »

How someone can deny ORIGINAL SIN seems hard to understand.

Of course there are various versions of this too.

I wonder if HT's group denies THE CURSE THAT GOD PLACED ON THE EARTH??



Hill Top
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Re: WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING PERFECT?

Post by Hill Top »

branham1965 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 5:30 am
How someone can deny ORIGINAL SIN seems hard to understand.
The doctrine of original sin is a corruption of God's word.
Here is a scripture that refutes the evil notion of original sin...
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." (Ezek 18:20)
Show me any NT verse that says differently.
I wonder if HT's group denies THE CURSE THAT GOD PLACED ON THE EARTH??
As it is noted in Gen 3:17..."... cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;"
It is the "ground" that God cursed.
Do you consider the "ground" to mean the entire earth?
Does that include the sky?
The sea?



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bibleman
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Re: WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING PERFECT?

Post by bibleman »

Hill Top wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 3:16 pm
s it is noted in Gen 3:17..."... cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;"
It is the "ground" that God cursed.
Do you consider the "ground" to mean the entire earth?
Does that include the sky?
The sea?
You are right on this part for sure. There was curse on the ground for sure and NOT the sea or the sky at this time.

Dake (Gen 3:17 note) said it like this: "The curse was not only on man, but also on animals, the ground, and all it produces" showing that the curse was on the ground a "producer" - the sky and sea not being mentioned at this time.


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Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

Hill Top
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Re: WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING PERFECT?

Post by Hill Top »

bibleman wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 10:36 am
Hill Top wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 3:16 pm
s it is noted in Gen 3:17..."... cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;"
It is the "ground" that God cursed.
Do you consider the "ground" to mean the entire earth?
Does that include the sky?
The sea?
You are right on this part for sure. There was curse on the ground for sure and NOT the sea or the sky at this time.

Dake (Gen 3:17 note) said it like this: "The curse was not only on man, but also on animals, the ground, and all it produces" showing that the curse was on the ground a "producer" - the sky and sea not being mentioned at this time.
Thanks for your reply.
I think branham was going to try and connect "original sin" to the effects of a fallen world.
Adam sinned and garnered death.
Death was passed along to all his descendants.
Babies that die, die because of Adam: but they are without sin.



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bibleman
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Re: WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING PERFECT?

Post by bibleman »

Hill Top wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 1:55 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 10:36 am
Hill Top wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 3:16 pm
s it is noted in Gen 3:17..."... cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;"
It is the "ground" that God cursed.
Do you consider the "ground" to mean the entire earth?
Does that include the sky?
The sea?
You are right on this part for sure. There was curse on the ground for sure and NOT the sea or the sky at this time.

Dake (Gen 3:17 note) said it like this: "The curse was not only on man, but also on animals, the ground, and all it produces" showing that the curse was on the ground a "producer" - the sky and sea not being mentioned at this time.
Thanks for your reply.
I think branham was going to try and connect "original sin" to the effects of a fallen world.
Adam sinned and garnered death.
Death was passed along to all his descendants.
Babies that die, die because of Adam: but they are without sin.
Reading your reply, didn't quite understand if you were saying it was coming from you or Branham?

So it was you saying and believing: "Babies that die, die because of Adam: but they are without sin."

Right?


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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