Dake Bible Discussion BoardCalling Jesus a liar?

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luchnia
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Calling Jesus a liar?

Post by luchnia » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:36 am

How many today call Jesus a liar by saying that they continue to sin yet claim they are still saved? This goes on daily and is preached by thousands of preachers. Over many years I have learned that there is a great deal of ignorance in understanding what sin actually is and that ignorance is often why folks believe they are in sin. I have seen people stub their toe and somehow think that is sin. I have seen people think thoughts are sin and on and on it goes.

Yes, in many cases people are in sin and not saved, but often times they are simply ignorant of what sin actually is. This post is about those calling Jesus a liar by the deception of thinking sin is in saint's life. Let's look at Jesus words when He was speaking to the Jews about what one serves when the commit sin. He spoke some shocking words that today are simply ignored for the sake of serving sin.

31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. 37I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

Notice what Jesus says in verse 34 and how simple it is. He says "Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." Amazing how those words are changed today to mean something totally different.

Here are some examples of how people change this to allow them to believe deception and that they are somehow serving God and righteousness and at the same time sinning.

Whosover sins is still a servant of God (lie). Whosover does one sin is still saved (lie). Whosover continues to sin is falling out of fellowship with God, but are still saved (lie). Whosoever sins is still ok and doing the right thing as we all fall, but God still keeps us even in our sin (lie). Whosoever sins is ok, Jesus paid full price for us (lie). Whosoever sins is still saved because none are perfect and none are righteous (lie). Whosoever sins cannot help but sin, we are all fallen depraved nature and cannot stop sin (lie). You will never stop sin this side of heaven (lie). You can never be holy, only one was perfect and holy (lie). God's children still sin (lie).


Word up!

TruthSeeker
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Re: Calling Jesus a liar?

Post by TruthSeeker » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:00 pm

luchnia wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:36 am
How many today call Jesus a liar by saying that they continue to sin yet claim they are still saved? This goes on daily and is preached by thousands of preachers. Over many years I have learned that there is a great deal of ignorance in understanding what sin actually is and that ignorance is often why folks believe they are in sin. I have seen people stub their toe and somehow think that is sin. I have seen people think thoughts are sin and on and on it goes.

Yes, in many cases people are in sin and not saved, but often times they are simply ignorant of what sin actually is. This post is about those calling Jesus a liar by the deception of thinking sin is in saint's life. Let's look at Jesus words when He was speaking to the Jews about what one serves when the commit sin. He spoke some shocking words that today are simply ignored for the sake of serving sin.

31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. 37I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

Notice what Jesus says in verse 34 and how simple it is. He says "Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." Amazing how those words are changed today to mean something totally different.

Here are some examples of how people change this to allow them to believe deception and that they are somehow serving God and righteousness and at the same time sinning.

Whosover sins is still a servant of God (lie). Whosover does one sin is still saved (lie). Whosover continues to sin is falling out of fellowship with God, but are still saved (lie). Whosoever sins is still ok and doing the right thing as we all fall, but God still keeps us even in our sin (lie). Whosoever sins is ok, Jesus paid full price for us (lie). Whosoever sins is still saved because none are perfect and none are righteous (lie). Whosoever sins cannot help but sin, we are all fallen depraved nature and cannot stop sin (lie). You will never stop sin this side of heaven (lie). You can never be holy, only one was perfect and holy (lie). God's children still sin (lie).
You and Hilltop claim to be without sin. Are you two doing the works of Jesus? Are you casting out devils, raising the dead, healing the sick on a regular basis? Jesus said you would if you believed(John 14:12). So if you two are not, then you are in the sin of unbelief. Rev 21:8 says where the unbelieving will go. I'm just writing this to go along with your line of reasoning which I think is totally extreme. The reason I bring this up is that the demonstration of the power of God or the lack of it is a sure sign whether a person is walking in truth or stuck in religion and legalism. I'm preaching this to myself also. So if we are not, I don't think we should be spending time pointing out who is in sin and going to hell and think everything is ok with us when it is not.
If we repent of our unbelief and stop trying to be the Holy Ghost an awakening can hit America again.



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luchnia
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Re: Calling Jesus a liar?

Post by luchnia » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:30 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:00 pm
luchnia wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:36 am
How many today call Jesus a liar by saying that they continue to sin yet claim they are still saved? This goes on daily and is preached by thousands of preachers. Over many years I have learned that there is a great deal of ignorance in understanding what sin actually is and that ignorance is often why folks believe they are in sin. I have seen people stub their toe and somehow think that is sin. I have seen people think thoughts are sin and on and on it goes.

Yes, in many cases people are in sin and not saved, but often times they are simply ignorant of what sin actually is. This post is about those calling Jesus a liar by the deception of thinking sin is in saint's life. Let's look at Jesus words when He was speaking to the Jews about what one serves when the commit sin. He spoke some shocking words that today are simply ignored for the sake of serving sin.

31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. 37I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

Notice what Jesus says in verse 34 and how simple it is. He says "Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." Amazing how those words are changed today to mean something totally different.

Here are some examples of how people change this to allow them to believe deception and that they are somehow serving God and righteousness and at the same time sinning.

Whosover sins is still a servant of God (lie). Whosover does one sin is still saved (lie). Whosover continues to sin is falling out of fellowship with God, but are still saved (lie). Whosoever sins is still ok and doing the right thing as we all fall, but God still keeps us even in our sin (lie). Whosoever sins is ok, Jesus paid full price for us (lie). Whosoever sins is still saved because none are perfect and none are righteous (lie). Whosoever sins cannot help but sin, we are all fallen depraved nature and cannot stop sin (lie). You will never stop sin this side of heaven (lie). You can never be holy, only one was perfect and holy (lie). God's children still sin (lie).
You and Hilltop claim to be without sin. Are you two doing the works of Jesus? Are you casting out devils, raising the dead, healing the sick on a regular basis? Jesus said you would if you believed(John 14:12). So if you two are not, then you are in the sin of unbelief. Rev 21:8 says where the unbelieving will go. I'm just writing this to go along with your line of reasoning which I think is totally extreme. The reason I bring this up is that the demonstration of the power of God or the lack of it is a sure sign whether a person is walking in truth or stuck in religion and legalism. I'm preaching this to myself also. So if we are not, I don't think we should be spending time pointing out who is in sin and going to hell and think everything is ok with us when it is not.
If we repent of our unbelief and stop trying to be the Holy Ghost an awakening can hit America again.
Thanks for your response. I totally get your point and I agree to a certain extent. I don't know that I ever posted that I claim to be without sin or with sin for that matter. I think I posted what God's word states about sin and the saint and I think I comprehend what is meant in the context it was written.

The challenge for me with this thread is not not so much what I believe (that is for another time), but what God's word states about sin and the saint. Whether I believe a saint can sin or not will not change the facts of God's word concerning it as an impossibility as Dake pointed out. If I am in sin, I am doomed to an eternity without God and I have to deal with what is wrong in my spirit if that is the case.

I do ask why you think this line of reasoning is extreme? Dake devoted quite a bit of his writing and research to this area. I see and hear the "sinning saint" stuff taught all the time. When someone tries to live holy and righteous as God requires they are often called self-righteous which is sad to me. They should be praising God one is living right and good and honorable before God.

What demonstration of power or signs would make one believe they have to be of God? A healing? A resurrection? Casting out a demon? We may all be in trouble where this subject is concerned, yet that is on us and not on God. It is up to me to do and believe what God says to the absolute best of what He has given me to operate with. If I don't then that is not another person's problem, but my own to carry.

As far as pointing out who is going to hell, I am not implying that at all. I am simply echoing a biblical truth that so many today shy away from and even condone sin and claim that a saint sins every day. If you simply go to youtube or turn on the TV and look at today's preachers and many church goers and listen to what they say about sin. It is horrible if you ponder it. There is no such thing taught as a clean holy life before God or that it is even a requirement for one to live holy. If that does not burden one's heart, then I suppose nothing will.

Finally a question for you. Why do you think we are trying to be the Holy Ghost because we point out a biblical precept concerning sin just as Dake did in his book Bible Truths Unmasked? I would like to think and hope we are inspired by the Holy Spirit to reveal all truth and walk accordingly as the light comes to us.


Word up!

Hill Top
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Re: Calling Jesus a liar?

Post by Hill Top » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:16 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:00 pm

You and Hilltop claim to be without sin. Are you two doing the works of Jesus? Are you casting out devils, raising the dead, healing the sick on a regular basis? Jesus said you would if you believed(John 14:12). So if you two are not, then you are in the sin of unbelief. Rev 21:8 says where the unbelieving will go. I'm just writing this to go along with your line of reasoning which I think is totally extreme. The reason I bring this up is that the demonstration of the power of God or the lack of it is a sure sign whether a person is walking in truth or stuck in religion and legalism. I'm preaching this to myself also. So if we are not, I don't think we should be spending time pointing out who is in sin and going to hell and think everything is ok with us when it is not.
If we repent of our unbelief and stop trying to be the Holy Ghost an awakening can hit America again.
How many false prophets ARE out there healing?
You can't judge righteously based on signs and wonders without acknowledging that the devil can do the same signs and wonders.
Were I to answer "YES, I DO HEAL ALL THE TIME" you would call me a liar and just a channel for the devil's works.
When those who have yet to submit to God start asking for signs, no sign will be enough.
Isn't living without sin sign enough?

You call yourself "TruthSeeker".
Would that "truth" be that which Jesus said could free you from service to sin, in John 8:32-34?
...or some other kind of truth?



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luchnia
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Re: Calling Jesus a liar?

Post by luchnia » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:03 am

This topic kind of brings some other thoughts to my mind. Why is it that those that attempt righteous living are perceived as bad? We really should answer this question as there is a problem when we look down on those that are living right and good lives before God.

Are they self-righteous or are they God-righteous? Are they bearing good fruit? Do they have the fruits of the Spirit? We are commanded to be fruit inspectors. Do we pass judgement without seeing and righteously judging their fruits? I know I have been guilty of mis-judging good fruit bearers before I matured in Christ.

Judging fruit is somewhat different from judging false doctrine that is being taught. I have seen apples that were beautiful to the appearance, yet once you bit into them they were putrid to the core. Many are good at outward deception. Fruit from the heart is indeed pleasant.


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branham1965
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Re: Calling Jesus a liar?

Post by branham1965 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:48 am

This has been beaten into the ground far too long.

The devil lives in EXTREMES.

The greatest Christians i have known NEVER taught such a thing.I never heard in my life that a believer cannot sin or miss the mark.How ridiculous!!

" Therefore ,since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us ,let us lay aside every encumbrance AND THE SIN WHICH SO EASILY ENTANGLES US,and let us run with endurance the race which is set before us."
Hebrews 12:1 NASB



TruthSeeker
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Re: Calling Jesus a liar?

Post by TruthSeeker » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:22 pm

luchnia wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:30 pm
TruthSeeker wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:00 pm
luchnia wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:36 am
How many today call Jesus a liar by saying that they continue to sin yet claim they are still saved? This goes on daily and is preached by thousands of preachers. Over many years I have learned that there is a great deal of ignorance in understanding what sin actually is and that ignorance is often why folks believe they are in sin. I have seen people stub their toe and somehow think that is sin. I have seen people think thoughts are sin and on and on it goes.

Yes, in many cases people are in sin and not saved, but often times they are simply ignorant of what sin actually is. This post is about those calling Jesus a liar by the deception of thinking sin is in saint's life. Let's look at Jesus words when He was speaking to the Jews about what one serves when the commit sin. He spoke some shocking words that today are simply ignored for the sake of serving sin.

31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. 37I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

Notice what Jesus says in verse 34 and how simple it is. He says "Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." Amazing how those words are changed today to mean something totally different.

Here are some examples of how people change this to allow them to believe deception and that they are somehow serving God and righteousness and at the same time sinning.

Whosover sins is still a servant of God (lie). Whosover does one sin is still saved (lie). Whosover continues to sin is falling out of fellowship with God, but are still saved (lie). Whosoever sins is still ok and doing the right thing as we all fall, but God still keeps us even in our sin (lie). Whosoever sins is ok, Jesus paid full price for us (lie). Whosoever sins is still saved because none are perfect and none are righteous (lie). Whosoever sins cannot help but sin, we are all fallen depraved nature and cannot stop sin (lie). You will never stop sin this side of heaven (lie). You can never be holy, only one was perfect and holy (lie). God's children still sin (lie).
You and Hilltop claim to be without sin. Are you two doing the works of Jesus? Are you casting out devils, raising the dead, healing the sick on a regular basis? Jesus said you would if you believed(John 14:12). So if you two are not, then you are in the sin of unbelief. Rev 21:8 says where the unbelieving will go. I'm just writing this to go along with your line of reasoning which I think is totally extreme. The reason I bring this up is that the demonstration of the power of God or the lack of it is a sure sign whether a person is walking in truth or stuck in religion and legalism. I'm preaching this to myself also. So if we are not, I don't think we should be spending time pointing out who is in sin and going to hell and think everything is ok with us when it is not.
If we repent of our unbelief and stop trying to be the Holy Ghost an awakening can hit America again.
Thanks for your response. I totally get your point and I agree to a certain extent. I don't know that I ever posted that I claim to be without sin or with sin for that matter. I think I posted what God's word states about sin and the saint and I think I comprehend what is meant in the context it was written.

The challenge for me with this thread is not not so much what I believe (that is for another time), but what God's word states about sin and the saint. Whether I believe a saint can sin or not will not change the facts of God's word concerning it as an impossibility as Dake pointed out. If I am in sin, I am doomed to an eternity without God and I have to deal with what is wrong in my spirit if that is the case.

I do ask why you think this line of reasoning is extreme? Dake devoted quite a bit of his writing and research to this area. I see and hear the "sinning saint" stuff taught all the time. When someone tries to live holy and righteous as God requires they are often called self-righteous which is sad to me. They should be praising God one is living right and good and honorable before God.

What demonstration of power or signs would make one believe they have to be of God? A healing? A resurrection? Casting out a demon? We may all be in trouble where this subject is concerned, yet that is on us and not on God. It is up to me Hido and believe what God says to the absolute best of what He has given me to operate with. If I don't then that is not another person's problem, but my own to carry.

As far as pointing out who is going to hell, I am not implying that at all. I am simply echoing a biblical truth that so many today shy away from and even condone sin and claim that a saint sins every day. If you simply go to youtube or turn on the TV and look at today's preachers and many church goers and listen to what they say about sin. It is horrible if you ponder it. There is no such thing taught as a clean holy life before God or that it is even a requirement for one to live holy. If that does not burden one's heart, then I suppose nothing will.

Finally a question for you. Why do you think we are trying to be the Holy Ghost because we point out a biblical precept concerning sin just as Dake did in his book Bible Truths Unmasked? I would like to think and hope we are inspired by the Holy Spirit to reveal all truth and walk accordingly as the light comes to us.
I understand where you are coming from in some regards. Often times people that are living a consecrated and obedient life are labeled self-righteous which is wrong. My problem on this board and specifically with your and Hill Top's posts are as follows: I'll abbreviate names so you know who I'm referring to.

1. L If you sin once you are not saved.
2. L If you sin once you are not a servant of God
3. L Comments about men of God. See past posts. About Benny Hinn " Hinn? LOL " Rick Joyner (Final Quest) " Heavy meds LOL"
4. HT It is impossible for one born of the seed of God to sin (wrong interpretation of 1John 3:9)
5. HT One not baptized in water cannot be saved (again wrong inter. of scripture)

There seems to be a continual obsession with the doctrine of sin and finding fault with ministers (the two usually go hand in hand) This does nothing to build the kingdom of God and it doesn't really matter how much word you guys seem to have if these
issues aren't dealt with. As far as miracles go, the kingdom of God is not in word but in power. 1 Cor 4:20. Does the manifestation of miracles guarantee truth, no. But the lack of power does guarantee truth is lacking. Because of the repeated stressing of the false doctrines and finding fault with ministers on this board it is time for me to sign off for good.



Grandfather
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Re: Calling Jesus a liar?

Post by Grandfather » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:02 pm

If words of Jesus were to be fulfilled in the future but were not fulfilled at the present moment, would they be a lie?



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luchnia
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Re: Calling Jesus a liar?

Post by luchnia » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:40 pm

Grandfather wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:02 pm
If words of Jesus were to be fulfilled in the future but were not fulfilled at the present moment, would they be a lie?
Excellent question. Here is another angle of consideration. What if Jesus words were fulfilled at the moment spoken as well as the future when they are received into the spirit and become active and living word? I often think of God's spoken word as containers of spirit energy going out to produce the thing which God has spoken.


Word up!

Grandfather
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Re: Calling Jesus a liar?

Post by Grandfather » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:59 pm

luchnia wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:40 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:02 pm
If words of Jesus were to be fulfilled in the future but were not fulfilled at the present moment, would they be a lie?
Excellent question. Here is another angle of consideration. What if Jesus words were fulfilled at the moment spoken as well as the future when they are received into the spirit and become active and living word? I often think of God's spoken word as containers of spirit energy going out to produce the thing which God has spoken.
Perhaps they were. It would be true if God sees the future as if it were the present.



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