Current Events & News Items & JokesIs it ever permissible for Christians to withdraw life-sustaining support to terminally ill individuals?

A forum for discussing news items and current events and Jokes.
User avatar
bibleman
Administrator
Posts: 1831
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 1998 5:23 pm
Location: South Carolina
Contact:

Is it ever permissible for Christians to withdraw life-sustaining support to terminally ill individuals?

Post by bibleman »

Saw this on FreeRepublic and would like to get your ideas on it!
Question: Is it ever permissible for Christians to withdraw life-sustaining support to terminally ill individuals?

First, it is imperative to state that Christians must never countenance any medication or treatment that actively shortens life (i.e., euthanasia or “mercy-killing”).

The vexing question for people of faith, however, is “is it ever morally permissible to withdraw extraordinary life-extending treatments for terminally ill unconscious or comatose patients?”

The first principle should be that the patient's will should take precedence over government officials, insurance underwriters, medical staff, or even loved ones. If at all possible, the patient’s wishes should take precedence as long as he or she does not desire to have active measures taken to shorten his or her life.

If an unconscious patient has left instructions in advance that extraordinary medical steps to extend life should not be taken, then I believe the patient’s wishes should be honored, knowing that natural physical death will ensue. Of course, if the patient has expressed the desire to avail himself or herself of such measures, then those wishes should be honored as well.

I believe a sentient human being has the right, when in the last stages of a terminal illness, to say, “I do not want any further extraordinary treatment. When I am near death, I do not want to elongate the process artificially with extraordinary measures such as heart-lung machines. Once again, this does not mean he or she has the right to say, give me something to hasten my physical death when I am near death” — that’s euthanasia.

What do you do when you have no guidance from the patient? I believe for a Christian, when a patient is terminal, unconscious, or comatose, it is permissible, but never required, to make the decision to unplug heart-lung machines and other means of artificially extending physical life, especially after brain death has occurred.

I myself have left instructions that if I am terminally ill and comatose, that when brain death occurs, I am to receive no additional life support measures. Of course, my view is determined by the fact that as a born-again Christian I have no fear of death, believing that “to be absent from the body” is “to be present with the Lord” (2 Cor. 5:8).

May our heavenly Father give us all wisdom as we seek to discern His will in these weighty matters.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-rel ... 2506/posts


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

Hill Top
Ye Shall Receive the Holy Ghost Because the Promise is Unto You
Posts: 763
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: Is it ever permissible for Christians to withdraw life-sustaining support to terminally ill individuals?

Post by Hill Top »

bibleman wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:33 am
Saw this on FreeRepublic and would like to get your ideas on it!
Question: Is it ever permissible for Christians to withdraw life-sustaining support to terminally ill individuals?

First, it is imperative to state that Christians must never countenance any medication or treatment that actively shortens life (i.e., euthanasia or “mercy-killing”).

The vexing question for people of faith, however, is “is it ever morally permissible to withdraw extraordinary life-extending treatments for terminally ill unconscious or comatose patients?”

The first principle should be that the patient's will should take precedence over government officials, insurance underwriters, medical staff, or even loved ones. If at all possible, the patient’s wishes should take precedence as long as he or she does not desire to have active measures taken to shorten his or her life.

If an unconscious patient has left instructions in advance that extraordinary medical steps to extend life should not be taken, then I believe the patient’s wishes should be honored, knowing that natural physical death will ensue. Of course, if the patient has expressed the desire to avail himself or herself of such measures, then those wishes should be honored as well.

I believe a sentient human being has the right, when in the last stages of a terminal illness, to say, “I do not want any further extraordinary treatment. When I am near death, I do not want to elongate the process artificially with extraordinary measures such as heart-lung machines. Once again, this does not mean he or she has the right to say, give me something to hasten my physical death when I am near death” — that’s euthanasia.

What do you do when you have no guidance from the patient? I believe for a Christian, when a patient is terminal, unconscious, or comatose, it is permissible, but never required, to make the decision to unplug heart-lung machines and other means of artificially extending physical life, especially after brain death has occurred.

I myself have left instructions that if I am terminally ill and comatose, that when brain death occurs, I am to receive no additional life support measures. Of course, my view is determined by the fact that as a born-again Christian I have no fear of death, believing that “to be absent from the body” is “to be present with the Lord” (2 Cor. 5:8).

May our heavenly Father give us all wisdom as we seek to discern His will in these weighty matters.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-rel ... 2506/posts
No, as only God has the right to give and take life.
Prayer is the means of healing, and of glory to God for the healing.
Assisted suicide is just a lack of faith.



User avatar
bibleman
Administrator
Posts: 1831
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 1998 5:23 pm
Location: South Carolina
Contact:

Re: Is it ever permissible for Christians to withdraw life-sustaining support to terminally ill individuals?

Post by bibleman »

Hill Top wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:52 pm
No, as only God has the right to give and take life.
Prayer is the means of healing, and of glory to God for the healing.
Assisted suicide is just a lack of faith.
Thanks for your answer. Just to make it clear...

Let's say your Father is in the hospital after an auto accident. When you get there, he is not talking, eyes are open but dilated and he is not seeing, when you pinch his arm there is no response. The Doctor tells you he is brain dead and that the only reason his heart is beating is because they have him hooked up to a machine that is beating his heart and that they are also breathing for him.

They tell you that he will never see, never talk, never move on his own and never regain consciousness.

They ask you "Do we keep the machines going to beat his heart and breath for him or do we cut them off?

Do you say Yes cut the machines off - if he lives he lives!

Or

No leave the machines on forever!


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

Grandfather
Pray for Them which Despitefully Persecute You
Posts: 484
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:51 pm

Re: Is it ever permissible for Christians to withdraw life-sustaining support to terminally ill individuals?

Post by Grandfather »

bibleman wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:33 am
Saw this on FreeRepublic and would like to get your ideas on it!
Question: Is it ever permissible for Christians to withdraw life-sustaining support to terminally ill individuals?

First, it is imperative to state that Christians must never countenance any medication or treatment that actively shortens life (i.e., euthanasia or “mercy-killing”).

The vexing question for people of faith, however, is “is it ever morally permissible to withdraw extraordinary life-extending treatments for terminally ill unconscious or comatose patients?”

The first principle should be that the patient's will should take precedence over government officials, insurance underwriters, medical staff, or even loved ones. If at all possible, the patient’s wishes should take precedence as long as he or she does not desire to have active measures taken to shorten his or her life.

If an unconscious patient has left instructions in advance that extraordinary medical steps to extend life should not be taken, then I believe the patient’s wishes should be honored, knowing that natural physical death will ensue. Of course, if the patient has expressed the desire to avail himself or herself of such measures, then those wishes should be honored as well.

I believe a sentient human being has the right, when in the last stages of a terminal illness, to say, “I do not want any further extraordinary treatment. When I am near death, I do not want to elongate the process artificially with extraordinary measures such as heart-lung machines. Once again, this does not mean he or she has the right to say, give me something to hasten my physical death when I am near death” — that’s euthanasia.

What do you do when you have no guidance from the patient? I believe for a Christian, when a patient is terminal, unconscious, or comatose, it is permissible, but never required, to make the decision to unplug heart-lung machines and other means of artificially extending physical life, especially after brain death has occurred.

I myself have left instructions that if I am terminally ill and comatose, that when brain death occurs, I am to receive no additional life support measures. Of course, my view is determined by the fact that as a born-again Christian I have no fear of death, believing that “to be absent from the body” is “to be present with the Lord” (2 Cor. 5:8).

May our heavenly Father give us all wisdom as we seek to discern His will in these weighty matters.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-rel ... 2506/posts
Great question and a difficult one as I do not see any clear cut, universal answer that fits all circumstances and occasions.

Personal example - my father passed away a number of years ago just short of his 92 birthday. He came to a belief in Christ at an old age (80) and by his own admission, he had live a full life. Like most of us, there were points of regret where he would have liked a "do-over" but he was ready to face his eternal reward and be reunited with his wife, my mom who had passed away 10 years earlier. He had a living will in place and it contained a Do Not Resuscitate order. He had made it clear to all my brothers and sisters he did not want anything done that meant he would be dependant on a machine to keep him alive.

Now, a month before his 91st birthday he suffered a major stroke. His recovery from this event was remarkable, especially so because of his age. He again made his wishes about the DNR clear. The stroke would not change this he said. He then suffered another stroke and this time it set off a downward spiral of his health. There came a point where he had a serious kidney infection and was admitted to the hospital. We, me and my siblings, new this was serious. As we discussed what could be done with the doctor the doctor suggested a procedure that would require he be placed under anesthesia. While under a breathing tube would be inserted

The doctor told us that he could not promise the procedure would be effective, but it was the only course of action that he could recommend that would intervene in his situation and possibly extend his life. I asked him, the doctor if after the operation could we be assured the breathing tube would be removed, or would my father be dependant on it. The doctor's answer was uncertain. At my dad's age, many times the body begins to depend on it because it is easier for the body.

So, now the family dilemma. Do we deny an operation that may or may not extend a life? Do we insert a tube that my father may or may not become dependant on? If, we go through with the procedure and he becomes dependent, are we violating his wishes by keeping him alive by artificial means?

Sorry for the long reply/story, but I believe it reveals some of the complexity of this question/position.



Hill Top
Ye Shall Receive the Holy Ghost Because the Promise is Unto You
Posts: 763
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: Is it ever permissible for Christians to withdraw life-sustaining support to terminally ill individuals?

Post by Hill Top »

bibleman wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:18 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:52 pm
No, as only God has the right to give and take life.
Prayer is the means of healing, and of glory to God for the healing.
Assisted suicide is just a lack of faith.
Thanks for your answer. Just to make it clear...

Let's say your Father is in the hospital after an auto accident. When you get there, he is not talking, eyes are open but dilated and he is not seeing, when you pinch his arm there is no response. The Doctor tells you he is brain dead and that the only reason his heart is beating is because they have him hooked up to a machine that is beating his heart and that they are also breathing for him.
They tell you that he will never see, never talk, never move on his own and never regain consciousness.
They ask you "Do we keep the machines going to beat his heart and breath for him or do we cut them off?
Do you say Yes cut the machines off - if he lives he lives!
Or
No leave the machines on forever!
Why do you think your hypothetical situation would change my mind?



User avatar
bibleman
Administrator
Posts: 1831
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 1998 5:23 pm
Location: South Carolina
Contact:

Re: Is it ever permissible for Christians to withdraw life-sustaining support to terminally ill individuals?

Post by bibleman »

Hill Top wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:52 pm
bibleman wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:18 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:52 pm
No, as only God has the right to give and take life.
Prayer is the means of healing, and of glory to God for the healing.
Assisted suicide is just a lack of faith.
Thanks for your answer. Just to make it clear...

Let's say your Father is in the hospital after an auto accident. When you get there, he is not talking, eyes are open but dilated and he is not seeing, when you pinch his arm there is no response. The Doctor tells you he is brain dead and that the only reason his heart is beating is because they have him hooked up to a machine that is beating his heart and that they are also breathing for him.
They tell you that he will never see, never talk, never move on his own and never regain consciousness.
They ask you "Do we keep the machines going to beat his heart and breath for him or do we cut them off?
Do you say Yes cut the machines off - if he lives he lives!
Or
No leave the machines on forever!
Why do you think your hypothetical situation would change my mind?
I don’t know what your mind is. Just asked a question trying to understand what you think.


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

Grandfather
Pray for Them which Despitefully Persecute You
Posts: 484
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:51 pm

Re: Is it ever permissible for Christians to withdraw life-sustaining support to terminally ill individuals?

Post by Grandfather »

Hill Top wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:52 pm
No, as only God has the right to give and take life.
Prayer is the means of healing, and of glory to God for the healing.
Assisted suicide is just a lack of faith.
By this response you would do neither. You would not aid in keeping someone alive because only God has the right to give life.

By the same token you would not remove aid because only God can take life.

So your approach is to do nothing at all either way.



User avatar
luchnia
Shall Not He that Spared Not His Own Son Freely Give Us All Things?
Posts: 669
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:01 am

Re: Is it ever permissible for Christians to withdraw life-sustaining support to terminally ill individuals?

Post by luchnia »

This subject has many variables and again discernment is key.

First, people are the ones that prop these folks up with machines, otherwise they would live or die not based on a machine. In the majority of cases they would die. Machines often "prop" people up and basically there is no life there. One must really consider how they define "life." What brings the most challenges is that it is someone's loved one.

In my opinion, God had nothing to do with extending or taking the life of said individual in those situations. Having been there at the time the spirit left the fleshly tabernacle there are a number of interesting things that occur. Maybe a topic for another time though.

Taking a person off life support or leaving them on has no scriptural decision basis either way unless certain text are taken out of context and a false premise built from that. People like to make statements like, "It was his time God took him" and other such statements based on ignorance.


Word up!

Hill Top
Ye Shall Receive the Holy Ghost Because the Promise is Unto You
Posts: 763
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: Is it ever permissible for Christians to withdraw life-sustaining support to terminally ill individuals?

Post by Hill Top »

Grandfather wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:48 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:52 pm
No, as only God has the right to give and take life.
Prayer is the means of healing, and of glory to God for the healing.
Assisted suicide is just a lack of faith.
By this response you would do neither. You would not aid in keeping someone alive because only God has the right to give life.
By the same token you would not remove aid because only God can take life.
So your approach is to do nothing at all either way.
You are moving the goal posts.
Look at the OP.
It says nothing about "saving" lives.



Grandfather
Pray for Them which Despitefully Persecute You
Posts: 484
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:51 pm

Re: Is it ever permissible for Christians to withdraw life-sustaining support to terminally ill individuals?

Post by Grandfather »

Hill Top wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:07 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:48 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:52 pm
No, as only God has the right to give and take life.
Prayer is the means of healing, and of glory to God for the healing.
Assisted suicide is just a lack of faith.
By this response you would do neither. You would not aid in keeping someone alive because only God has the right to give life.
By the same token you would not remove aid because only God can take life.
So your approach is to do nothing at all either way.
You are moving the goal posts.
Look at the OP.
It says nothing about "saving" lives.
Sorry, if the goalposts were moved... you moved them.
What is "saving" a life other than intervening by giving life in order to keep it from being taken?
You said only God can give life. Now you add a p.s. --- unless one is saving it then it is okay if God is not involved.



Post Reply