Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ The Rapture!
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brodave
Re: The Rapture!
If no one is saved after the rapture where do the Tribulation saints come from: Rev.6:9-11; Rev. 7:9-17 ; Rev. 15:4 ?
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Rocky
Re: The Rapture!
Ray I don't feel like typing all of the scripture that shows this, I am sure you know what scriptures I will give. In any case, no matter what I give you will just disagree, so no point in me giving bible verses or scripture. And I am betting you know pretty much any point or counter point I will give. Another thing, I feel you are not really curious or even want to learn or discuss really, but just argue and be all rhetorical(yes this is a phrase I will be using through out this response lol) I know that's sound harsh, And the reason I sound a bit annoyed is because you answered my questions with rhetorical question and this makes a discussion or a debate pointless.Ray Wrote: Rocky,
You ask, "DO you believe that the "judgment seat of Christ" and the "Great White Throne Judgment" are two separate judgments?"
NO, because NOTHING in The Scriptures presents such. I know you believe they are different.
Please give me ANY SCRIPTURE that will "explain the literal meaning" of the "judgment seat of Christ" and the "Great White Throne Judgment" as being two separate judgments?
Could you please just answer the questions I gave directly? No offence but, Rhetorical question are pointless, I can make assumptions but you did not make yourself very clear. Oh and A rhetorical question is a figure of speech in the form of a question that is asked in order to make a point. The question, a rhetorical device, is posed not to elicit a specific answer, but rather to encourage the listener to consider a message or viewpoint. Please do not do that lolRay Wrote: About the 1000 year reign Of CHRIST whether I think it's literal or allegorical.
I would like to answer that question with a few questions (as you already know what I believe).
Is CHRIST reigning NOW? Is HE reigning during the 1000 years of Rev 20?
Are mankind being Saved NOW ? Are mankind saved during the 1000 years of Rev 20?
Is there sin in the world NOW ? Is there sin in the world during the 1000 years of Rev 20 ?
Has Salvation went out unto the Gentile Nations (Ethnos) NOW during the Church age as satan has been bound from deceiving the Nations (Gentile nations) as he has all through history leading up to the Church age? Is satan bound from deceiving the nations during the 1000 years of Rev 20?
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Ironman
- Fast the Chosen Fast of God... Then Shalt Thou Be Like a Spring of Water, Whose Waters Fail Not
- Posts: 1275
- Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:29 pm
Re: The Rapture!
People will be saved after the rapture. This is clear from Acts 2:16-21 where we read of people being saved and receiving the Holy Spirit in their lives during the Tribulation Great multitudes will be saved and come out of the Tribulation in Rev. 7:9-17; 12:17; 15:2-4; 20:4-6.
GPFMan.
GPFMan.
Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
Ray how bout we just give you a Dake Bible-
Ray
Re: The Rapture!
Hello Brother Dave,brodave wrote:If no one is saved after the rapture where do the Tribulation saints come from: Rev.6:9-11; Rev. 7:9-17 ; Rev. 15:4 ?
John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
Romans 12:12
Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;
2 Corinthians 1:4
Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.
2 Corinthians 7:4
Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our tribulation.
1 Thessalonians 3:4
For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.
Revelation 1:9
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
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brodave
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Ray
Re: The Rapture!
Rocky,Rocky wrote:Ray I don't feel like typing all of the scripture that shows this, I am sure you know what scriptures I will give. In any case, no matter what I give you will just disagree, so no point in me giving bible verses or scripture. And I am betting you know pretty much any point or counter point I will give. Another thing, I feel you are not really curious or even want to learn or discuss really, but just argue and be all rhetorical(yes this is a phrase I will be using through out this response lol) I know that's sound harsh, And the reason I sound a bit annoyed is because you answered my questions with rhetorical question and this makes a discussion or a debate pointless.Ray Wrote: Rocky,
You ask, "DO you believe that the "judgment seat of Christ" and the "Great White Throne Judgment" are two separate judgments?"
NO, because NOTHING in The Scriptures presents such. I know you believe they are different.
Please give me ANY SCRIPTURE that will "explain the literal meaning" of the "judgment seat of Christ" and the "Great White Throne Judgment" as being two separate judgments?
Could you please just answer the questions I gave directly? No offence but, Rhetorical question are pointless, I can make assumptions but you did not make yourself very clear. Oh and A rhetorical question is a figure of speech in the form of a question that is asked in order to make a point. The question, a rhetorical device, is posed not to elicit a specific answer, but rather to encourage the listener to consider a message or viewpoint. Please do not do that lolRay Wrote: About the 1000 year reign Of CHRIST whether I think it's literal or allegorical.
I would like to answer that question with a few questions (as you already know what I believe).
Is CHRIST reigning NOW? Is HE reigning during the 1000 years of Rev 20?
Are mankind being Saved NOW ? Are mankind saved during the 1000 years of Rev 20?
Is there sin in the world NOW ? Is there sin in the world during the 1000 years of Rev 20 ?
Has Salvation went out unto the Gentile Nations (Ethnos) NOW during the Church age as satan has been bound from deceiving the Nations (Gentile nations) as he has all through history leading up to the Church age? Is satan bound from deceiving the nations during the 1000 years of Rev 20?
above you wrote concerning the "judgment seat of Christ" and the "Great White Throne Judgment" as being two separate judgments "Ray I don't feel like typing all of the scripture that shows this".
Rocky, Just the mention of ONE Chapter & verse would be fine.
And concerning the 1000 year reign Of CHRIST mentioned in Rev.20, One should ask oneself are the events mentioned to occur during this 1000 years occuring NOW and have been since the begining of The Church Age?
Rocky, Just ONE would be OK.
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Ironman
- Fast the Chosen Fast of God... Then Shalt Thou Be Like a Spring of Water, Whose Waters Fail Not
- Posts: 1275
- Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:29 pm
Re: The Rapture!
Ray.
Do you know the rapture takes place at least seven years before the second coming of christ. Christ is not personally, physically on the Earth here now ruling the Earth. The rapture takes place before the tribulation, and the second coming after the tribulation. The rapture is the time when Christ comes FOR the saints (1 Thess. 4:13-17), and the second coming is when He comes back to the Earth WITH them (Zech. 14:1-5; Jude 14; Rev. 19:11-21). At the rapture, Christ takes the saints to heaven (1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16; Col. 3:4), and at the second coming He Leaves Heaven with them (Rev. 19 11-21). At the rapture Christ does not come to Earth (1 thess.4:16) but at the second coming He does (Zech.14:14; Matt. 24:29-31). Since Christ does not come to earth at the rapture, it cannot be called the second coming of Christ.
The rapture must and does take place before the fulfilment of Rev. 4-22, which describes the tribulation period and the Millennium and the New Earth after the Millennium. According to 2 Thess. 2:7-8 it is stated that "the Hinderer of lawlessness will be taken out of the way," "And Then shall the wicked be revealed" and since the wicked is here for the last seven years of this age, according to Dan. 9:27, the hinderer must be removed before the Antichrist comes and before the tribulation that he will cause when he comes. The hinderer referred to in 2 Thess. 2:7-8 is the church, and also that the Antichrist cannot possibly be revealed until after the church us taken out of the way. Now comes the question of whether the Antichrist will be revealed at the beginning or at the middle of the Week, then it can also be proved that the church is raptured before the beginning and not the middle of the Week as the manchild. In Dan. 9:27 we have one indisputable argument that he is revealed at the beginning of the Week, for he makes a covenant for seven years with Israel and not for three and one half years. The breaking of the covenant in the middle of the Week is not a revelation of him on the scene of action, but an unfolding of what he is to do in the middle of the Week, three and one half years after his revelation. This passage gives one of the scriptural marks by which we may know who the Antichrist is and when he is to be revealed. If the church is raptured in the middle of the Week there would be a definite time set for the rapture and we should quit looking for the rapture at any other time and look for the events which mark the appearance of the seventieth Week. But if the Church goes through the terrible events of the seals and trumpets, then the promise of Jesus that true believers shall "escape all these things" is contradicted and Paul's teaching that the church is caught up before the revelation of the Antichrist is also contradicted, for the Antichrist is here three and one half years before the middle of the Week. Therefore, once we understand that the church can be raptured any day and that there is no definite time set for that event, then we can conscientiously teach others that they should be ready for the rapture at any and all times. In Thess. 5:1-11 we have another definite promise assuring us that the saints will escape the wrath which precedes the day of the Lord. "God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation [deliverance from this wrath] by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him." The second advent marks the beginning of the day of the Lord. This wrath is revealed in Matt. 24-25; Luke 21; Rev. 6:1-19:21 and is to be fulfilled during the Seventieth Week. If the saints escape this wrath, the church must be raptured before the Week or in Rev. 4:1. Prophetical date Setting (Matt. 24:36-25:46) It is definitely stated and illustrated in these verses that no man will know the day or the hour of the second coming of Christ to the Earth. All we may know is "the times and seasons" which prove the nearness of the second advent (1 Thess. 5:1-9). To keep His disciples from speculating as to the day and hour of His coming, Christ gives a comparison showing a similarity between the days of Noah and the days just before His coming and states that men before the flood "knew not untill the flood came and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be" (Matt. 24:37-39; 1 Thess. 5:1-3; Jude 14.
Do you know the rapture takes place at least seven years before the second coming of christ. Christ is not personally, physically on the Earth here now ruling the Earth. The rapture takes place before the tribulation, and the second coming after the tribulation. The rapture is the time when Christ comes FOR the saints (1 Thess. 4:13-17), and the second coming is when He comes back to the Earth WITH them (Zech. 14:1-5; Jude 14; Rev. 19:11-21). At the rapture, Christ takes the saints to heaven (1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16; Col. 3:4), and at the second coming He Leaves Heaven with them (Rev. 19 11-21). At the rapture Christ does not come to Earth (1 thess.4:16) but at the second coming He does (Zech.14:14; Matt. 24:29-31). Since Christ does not come to earth at the rapture, it cannot be called the second coming of Christ.
The rapture must and does take place before the fulfilment of Rev. 4-22, which describes the tribulation period and the Millennium and the New Earth after the Millennium. According to 2 Thess. 2:7-8 it is stated that "the Hinderer of lawlessness will be taken out of the way," "And Then shall the wicked be revealed" and since the wicked is here for the last seven years of this age, according to Dan. 9:27, the hinderer must be removed before the Antichrist comes and before the tribulation that he will cause when he comes. The hinderer referred to in 2 Thess. 2:7-8 is the church, and also that the Antichrist cannot possibly be revealed until after the church us taken out of the way. Now comes the question of whether the Antichrist will be revealed at the beginning or at the middle of the Week, then it can also be proved that the church is raptured before the beginning and not the middle of the Week as the manchild. In Dan. 9:27 we have one indisputable argument that he is revealed at the beginning of the Week, for he makes a covenant for seven years with Israel and not for three and one half years. The breaking of the covenant in the middle of the Week is not a revelation of him on the scene of action, but an unfolding of what he is to do in the middle of the Week, three and one half years after his revelation. This passage gives one of the scriptural marks by which we may know who the Antichrist is and when he is to be revealed. If the church is raptured in the middle of the Week there would be a definite time set for the rapture and we should quit looking for the rapture at any other time and look for the events which mark the appearance of the seventieth Week. But if the Church goes through the terrible events of the seals and trumpets, then the promise of Jesus that true believers shall "escape all these things" is contradicted and Paul's teaching that the church is caught up before the revelation of the Antichrist is also contradicted, for the Antichrist is here three and one half years before the middle of the Week. Therefore, once we understand that the church can be raptured any day and that there is no definite time set for that event, then we can conscientiously teach others that they should be ready for the rapture at any and all times. In Thess. 5:1-11 we have another definite promise assuring us that the saints will escape the wrath which precedes the day of the Lord. "God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation [deliverance from this wrath] by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him." The second advent marks the beginning of the day of the Lord. This wrath is revealed in Matt. 24-25; Luke 21; Rev. 6:1-19:21 and is to be fulfilled during the Seventieth Week. If the saints escape this wrath, the church must be raptured before the Week or in Rev. 4:1. Prophetical date Setting (Matt. 24:36-25:46) It is definitely stated and illustrated in these verses that no man will know the day or the hour of the second coming of Christ to the Earth. All we may know is "the times and seasons" which prove the nearness of the second advent (1 Thess. 5:1-9). To keep His disciples from speculating as to the day and hour of His coming, Christ gives a comparison showing a similarity between the days of Noah and the days just before His coming and states that men before the flood "knew not untill the flood came and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be" (Matt. 24:37-39; 1 Thess. 5:1-3; Jude 14.
Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
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Rocky
Re: The Rapture!
I am glad someone has the energy to do this great job Ironman. And Ray this it takes teaching and harmonizing the bible. You already know the scriptures that are used I am sure you have a DARB to study, I just don't see the point no matter what I show or anyone else you already have your mind made up. 
And I can actually see someone mistaken the two judgments as one of the same judgment to someone who is not familiar or who has not study this out, but to believe that the 1000 year reign of Christ as allegorical is absurd to say the least.. Why do you believ that who lead you astray? Someone got in head, I bet at one time you believed the way we do on this I bet you even bought a DARB..
And I can actually see someone mistaken the two judgments as one of the same judgment to someone who is not familiar or who has not study this out, but to believe that the 1000 year reign of Christ as allegorical is absurd to say the least.. Why do you believ that who lead you astray? Someone got in head, I bet at one time you believed the way we do on this I bet you even bought a DARB..-
Ironman
- Fast the Chosen Fast of God... Then Shalt Thou Be Like a Spring of Water, Whose Waters Fail Not
- Posts: 1275
- Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:29 pm
Re: The Rapture!
G-Day Rocky. Ye'h, I typed it straight out of my GPFman book. Takes a little time and energy but worth it if someone gets whats intended from it.Rocky wrote:I am glad someone has the energy to do this great job Ironman. And Ray this it takes teaching and harmonizing the bible. You already know the scriptures that are used I am sure you have a DARB to study, I just don't see the point no matter what I show or anyone else you already have your mind made up.
Cheers mate!
H.
Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?