Dake Bible Discussion BoardEternal Security

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olindquist

Re: Eternal Security

Post by olindquist »

Thank you



olindquist

Re: Eternal Security

Post by olindquist »

Jesus speaking to the pharisees in Matthew 12:27,

"And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children(disciples) cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges."

Mat. 10: 24 " The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord."

Jesus said that the pharisees' disciples were casting out devils and a disciple is not above his master. From all indications those pharisees were not saved, yet their disciples were casting out devils. By what means and were they saved?



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Ironman
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Re: Eternal Security

Post by Ironman »

olindquist wrote:Jesus speaking to the pharisees in Matthew 12:27,

"And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children(disciples) cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges."

Mat. 10: 24 " The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord."

Jesus said that the pharisees' disciples were casting out devils and a disciple is not above his master. From all indications those pharisees were not saved, yet their disciples were casting out devils. By what means and were they saved?
Satan, who causes sickness by demon oppression (Acts 10:38; Luke 13:11-16) can take off what he puts on without opposing himself or casting himself out. When he can damn a soul by getting a person to deny the essentials of the Bible that will save the soul, then it is to his advantage to deceive by taking away the sickness. Many people accept false religions that promise healing and the benefits. Satan cooperates with these religions, which he himself founded to deceive men. He heals people without their faith in Jesus Christ and His work on the cross. Such people naturally think they are in the true religion. They reject Christ and see no need of getting saved from sin or following Christianity.

Josephus says that Pharisees practiced exorcism (Antiquities, Book V!!!, 2-5; cp. Acts 18:13). Jesus named their practice to disprove their accusation about Him. If you and your disciples cast out demons, then it proves that you also are of the devil (v 27-28).


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

olindquist

Re: Eternal Security

Post by olindquist »

[quote="Ironman"]
"Satan, who causes sickness by demon oppression (Acts 10:38; Luke 13:11-16) can take off what he puts on without opposing himself or casting himself out. When he can damn a soul by getting a person to deny the essentials of the Bible that will save the soul, then it is to his advantage to deceive by taking away the sickness. Many people accept false religions that promise healing and the benefits. Satan cooperates with these religions, which he himself founded to deceive men. He heals people without their faith in Jesus Christ and His work on the cross. Such people naturally think they are in the true religion. They reject Christ and see no need of getting saved from sin or following Christianity."

I agree that Satan does those above things. Does this above principle apply to Matthew 12:27. Jesus said they were cast out rather than left voluntarily.

Are we seeing a pattern here with other examples I have brought to our attention?

1) Unsaved disciples of pharisees casting out devils.

2) Judas who was sent out to cast out devils whom Jesus called a devil in John 6:70?

3) The many in Matthew 7:22 who said they cast out devils in Jesus name whom He said He never knew?

The question may now be is: "what is the common denominator that gave all these "unsaved" people the ability to cast out devils?"



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bibleman
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Re: Eternal Security

Post by bibleman »

olindquist wrote:
Ironman wrote: "Satan, who causes sickness by demon oppression (Acts 10:38; Luke 13:11-16) can take off what he puts on without opposing himself or casting himself out. When he can damn a soul by getting a person to deny the essentials of the Bible that will save the soul, then it is to his advantage to deceive by taking away the sickness. Many people accept false religions that promise healing and the benefits. Satan cooperates with these religions, which he himself founded to deceive men. He heals people without their faith in Jesus Christ and His work on the cross. Such people naturally think they are in the true religion. They reject Christ and see no need of getting saved from sin or following Christianity."

I agree that Satan does those above things. Does this above principle apply to Matthew 12:27. Jesus said they were cast out rather than left voluntarily.

Are we seeing a pattern here with other examples I have brought to our attention?

1) Unsaved disciples of pharisees casting out devils.

2) Judas who was sent out to cast out devils whom Jesus called a devil in John 6:70?

3) The many in Matthew 7:22 who said they cast out devils in Jesus name whom He said He never knew?

The question may now be is: "what is the common denominator that gave all these "unsaved" people the ability to cast out devils?"
No disrespect intended but it seems you are living in lala land!


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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Ironman
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Re: Eternal Security

Post by Ironman »

bibleman wrote:
olindquist wrote:
Ironman wrote: "Satan, who causes sickness by demon oppression (Acts 10:38; Luke 13:11-16) can take off what he puts on without opposing himself or casting himself out. When he can damn a soul by getting a person to deny the essentials of the Bible that will save the soul, then it is to his advantage to deceive by taking away the sickness. Many people accept false religions that promise healing and the benefits. Satan cooperates with these religions, which he himself founded to deceive men. He heals people without their faith in Jesus Christ and His work on the cross. Such people naturally think they are in the true religion. They reject Christ and see no need of getting saved from sin or following Christianity."

I agree that Satan does those above things. Does this above principle apply to Matthew 12:27. Jesus said they were cast out rather than left voluntarily.

Are we seeing a pattern here with other examples I have brought to our attention?

1) Unsaved disciples of pharisees casting out devils.

2) Judas who was sent out to cast out devils whom Jesus called a devil in John 6:70?

3) The many in Matthew 7:22 who said they cast out devils in Jesus name whom He said He never knew?

The question may now be is: "what is the common denominator that gave all these "unsaved" people the ability to cast out devils?"
No disrespect intended but it seems you are living in lala land!
:angel:


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

olindquist

Re: Eternal Security

Post by olindquist »

Ironman wrote:
bibleman wrote:
olindquist wrote:
Ironman wrote: "Satan, who causes sickness by demon oppression (Acts 10:38; Luke 13:11-16) can take off what he puts on without opposing himself or casting himself out. When he can damn a soul by getting a person to deny the essentials of the Bible that will save the soul, then it is to his advantage to deceive by taking away the sickness. Many people accept false religions that promise healing and the benefits. Satan cooperates with these religions, which he himself founded to deceive men. He heals people without their faith in Jesus Christ and His work on the cross. Such people naturally think they are in the true religion. They reject Christ and see no need of getting saved from sin or following Christianity."

I agree that Satan does those above things. Does this above principle apply to Matthew 12:27. Jesus said they were cast out rather than left voluntarily.

Are we seeing a pattern here with other examples I have brought to our attention?

1) Unsaved disciples of pharisees casting out devils.

2) Judas who was sent out to cast out devils whom Jesus called a devil in John 6:70?

3) The many in Matthew 7:22 who said they cast out devils in Jesus name whom He said He never knew?

The question may now be is: "what is the common denominator that gave all these "unsaved" people the ability to cast out devils?"
No disrespect intended but it seems you are living in lala land!

No offence taken guys!!

:angel:



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luchnia
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Re: Eternal Security

Post by luchnia »

olindquist wrote:Jesus speaking to the pharisees in Matthew 12:27,

"And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children(disciples) cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges."

Mat. 10: 24 " The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord."

Jesus said that the pharisees' disciples were casting out devils and a disciple is not above his master. From all indications those pharisees were not saved, yet their disciples were casting out devils. By what means and were they saved?
For a moment let's consider the rationale you have used to assume that the disciples of the pharisees, the unsaved, were casting out devils. Here is something to ponder about how this sentence has been divided to make it have a meaning other than the figure of speech and meaning that Jesus was using.

Since you assume that the disciples of the pharisees were casting out devils, then by the same standard you have placed on that part of the sentence would you not assume that Jesus cast out devils by Beelzebub because Jesus said so in the very same sentence?

Look at the context and the type of speech Jesus was using here. Does anyone really think that Jesus cast out devils by Beelzebub? Ok, now apply the same rationale to the rest of the statement Jesus made and notice very closely the word "if" which is an indicator of a meaning that is important here.

Jesus says, "IF" I do something, then.... Now just realize that the answer is IF NOT. In other words, I don't cast out demons by the power of Beelzebub and your disciples don't cast out anything. Basically you and your disciples blow some air of darkness out of your lips. The rest of the figure of speech means nothing in that case. Context, context, context :angel:


Word up!

olindquist

Re: Eternal Security

Post by olindquist »

Can anyone explain how known ministers who have been in a known unrepentant death penalty sin (which would cause them to be unsaved according to Dake's definition) and still flow in the supernatural including casting out devils?

To deny this has happened is either a sign of ignorance or just lying.



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bibleman
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Re: Eternal Security

Post by bibleman »

olindquist wrote:Can anyone explain how known ministers who have been in a known unrepentant death penalty sin (which would cause them to be unsaved according to Dake's definition) and still flow in the supernatural including casting out devils?

To deny this has happened is either a sign of ignorance or just lying.
Who as an example are you talking about?


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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