Dake Bible Discussion BoardDid the Father forgive those who murdered Jesus?

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Ironman
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Did the Father forgive those who murdered Jesus?

Postby Ironman » Fri May 05, 2017 7:41 pm

When we pray in Jesus Name the Father hears our prayer as if Jesus Himself was doing the asking. Would, or does the Father deny Jesus anything? I wonder about this Scripture. When Jesus asked the Father to forgive those who murdered Him, do you believe the Father did forgive them because they did not know what they were doing, as Jesus said?



Luke 23: 33-34, And when they came unto the place which is called The skull, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand and the other on the left.

v. 34, And Jesus said, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. And parting his garments among them, they cast lots.


Have I become your enemy, because I tell you the truth.

I'll be a fool for truth's sake. Truth is fallen in the street. I wont pass it by. I'll pick it up and embrace it regardless of the costs.

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: Did the Father forgive those who murdered Jesus?

Postby Spiritblade Disciple » Fri May 05, 2017 9:12 pm

Yes.

Another question... Would the Father have forgiven them had He not asked?

And, would He have sinned had He not asked?



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Ironman
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Re: Did the Father forgive those who murdered Jesus?

Postby Ironman » Fri May 05, 2017 9:19 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:Yes.

Another question... Would the Father have forgiven them had He not asked?

And, would He have sinned had He not asked?


1. "Would the Father have forgiven them had He not asked?" I don't think so. They never believed Jesus was their saviour.

2. "And, would He have sinned had He not asked?" I doubt it?

What do you think, did the Father forgive those who actually murdered Jesus because Jesus specifically asked Him to? Those who nailed Him to the cross, and cast lots over His garments?


Have I become your enemy, because I tell you the truth.

I'll be a fool for truth's sake. Truth is fallen in the street. I wont pass it by. I'll pick it up and embrace it regardless of the costs.

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branham1965
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Re: Did the Father forgive those who murdered Jesus?

Postby branham1965 » Fri May 05, 2017 10:39 pm

This is some heavy stuff.It is talking about the Lord Jesus Christ.


I do not know if the Father forgave those people.



titus213
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Re: Did the Father forgive those who murdered Jesus?

Postby titus213 » Fri May 05, 2017 10:52 pm

This is one of those passages in the New Testament where the original languages can shed some interesting light.

The verb "said" is in the imperfect tense, which means that Jesus "kept on saying Father, forgive them" (the NASB tries to bring this out by translating "Jesus was saying"). In other words, this was not just a prayer He made one time.

The word translated "forgive" has the idea of "hold off" or "wait." It has the connotation of forbearance or permission of an event. It's often translated in the KJV as "suffer" ("suffer little children and forbid them not" -- Matt 19:14) or as "let alone" ("And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her? she hath wrought a good work on me" -- Mark 14:6). Matthew uses the word in his account of the crucifixion in 27:49 "The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him."

The point being that Jesus was not asking God for a blanket pardon, nor was He praying for the immediate forgiveness of His executioners without their repentance. He was asking His Father to hold off in His forbearance -- to hold back His wrath upon these people who were unaware of their real crime, until they might have an opportunity to respond with a greater awareness of what they had done. After all, some of these were Roman soldiers obeying military orders, carrying out an assignment given them by their superiors. They would naturally have assumed Jesus to be guilty, unless they were aware of Pilate’s statements to the Jews.

Later Peter said "And now, brethren, I know that you acted in ignorance, just as your rulers did also. But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord" (Acts 3:17-19).
Paul said "none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory" (1 Cor 2:8).

But as Paul explained to the men of Athens, "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead" (Acts 17:30-31).

After Christ's resurrection the executioners and others did have an opportunity to know the truth of who Jesus was and to respond, because Paul writes "the gospel that you have heard . . . was proclaimed in all creation under heaven" (Col 1:23). At that time they would need to respond in repentance and faith, confessing Jesus as Lord in order to have the forgiveness Jesus prayed they might have the opportunity to choose.

So Jesus was asking for time for people who had no opportunity to know of Him as the vindicated, victorious Lord of glory. The Father heard and answered that prayer from His Son.
Last edited by titus213 on Fri May 05, 2017 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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branham1965
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Re: Did the Father forgive those who murdered Jesus?

Postby branham1965 » Fri May 05, 2017 10:57 pm

Thank you Pastor.That is very powerful.Remarkable. :angel:
Last edited by branham1965 on Fri May 05, 2017 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Ironman
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Re: Did the Father forgive those who murdered Jesus?

Postby Ironman » Fri May 05, 2017 11:01 pm

"After Christ's resurrection the executioners and others did have an opportunity to know the truth of who Jesus was and to respond, because Paul writes "the gospel that you have heard . . . was proclaimed in all creation under heaven" (Col 1:23). At that time they would need to respond in repentance and faith, confessing Jesus as Lord in order to have the forgiveness Jesus prayed they might have the opportunity to choose.

So Jesus was asking for time for people who had no opportunity to know of Him as the vindicated, victorious Lord of glory. The Father heard and answered that prayer from His Son."
.

Thanks titus 213, I like your answer, it sure sounds right to me! :angel:


Have I become your enemy, because I tell you the truth.

I'll be a fool for truth's sake. Truth is fallen in the street. I wont pass it by. I'll pick it up and embrace it regardless of the costs.

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branham1965
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Re: Did the Father forgive those who murdered Jesus?

Postby branham1965 » Fri May 05, 2017 11:03 pm

I think it is very good answer too mate.


Ironman wrote:
"After Christ's resurrection the executioners and others did have an opportunity to know the truth of who Jesus was and to respond, because Paul writes "the gospel that you have heard . . . was proclaimed in all creation under heaven" (Col 1:23). At that time they would need to respond in repentance and faith, confessing Jesus as Lord in order to have the forgiveness Jesus prayed they might have the opportunity to choose.

So Jesus was asking for time for people who had no opportunity to know of Him as the vindicated, victorious Lord of glory. The Father heard and answered that prayer from His Son."
.

Thanks titus 213, I like your answer, it sure sounds right to me! :angel:



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Ironman
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Re: Did the Father forgive those who murdered Jesus?

Postby Ironman » Fri May 05, 2017 11:13 pm

branham1965 wrote:I think it is very good answer too mate.


Ironman wrote:
"After Christ's resurrection the executioners and others did have an opportunity to know the truth of who Jesus was and to respond, because Paul writes "the gospel that you have heard . . . was proclaimed in all creation under heaven" (Col 1:23). At that time they would need to respond in repentance and faith, confessing Jesus as Lord in order to have the forgiveness Jesus prayed they might have the opportunity to choose.

So Jesus was asking for time for people who had no opportunity to know of Him as the vindicated, victorious Lord of glory. The Father heard and answered that prayer from His Son."
.

Thanks titus 213, I like your answer, it sure sounds right to me! :angel:


I'm sure the news of His resurrection three days and nights later would have been news spread light lightening. For instance, Flavius Josephus a Jewish priest at the time of the Jewish Revolt of A.D. 66.  He was captured by the Romans, imprisoned, set free and then retired to Rome where he wrote a history of the Jewish Revolt called the Jewish War.  Later he wrote Antiquities as a history of the Jews.  It is in Antiquities that he mentions Christ. 

He wrote;

“About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man [if indeed one ought to call him a man.] For he was one who wrought surprising feats and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. [He was the Christ.] When Pilate, upon hearing him accused by men of the highest standing amongst us, had condemned him to be crucified, those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection for him.  [On the third day he appeared to them restored to life, for the prophets of God had prophesied these and countless other marvelous things about him.] And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.”


Have I become your enemy, because I tell you the truth.

I'll be a fool for truth's sake. Truth is fallen in the street. I wont pass it by. I'll pick it up and embrace it regardless of the costs.

titus213
The Lord Hath Laid Upon Christ the Iniquity of Us All
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Re: Did the Father forgive those who murdered Jesus?

Postby titus213 » Sat May 06, 2017 9:52 am

:angel:
branham1965 wrote:Thank you Pastor.That is very powerful.Remarkable. :angel:




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