Dake Bible Discussion BoardHow do Once Saved Always Saved people get passed Matthew 6:14-15

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bibleman
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How do Once Saved Always Saved people get passed Matthew 6:14-15

Post by bibleman »

How do Once Saved Always Saved people get passed Matthew 6:14-15

Matthew 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


In other words a person becomes a Christian and lives faithfully for the Lord in all areas of their life.
Then they get into a conflict with someone who they feel have wronged them.
They become hateful and bitter and REFUSE to forgive the offending party.

Now according to Jesus if they do not forgive they are UNFORGIVEN.

They refuse to forgive!

How would a once saved always saved person, (or reformed or ultra grace person) still believe that this UNFORGIVEN person could still have their salvation and go to Heaven should they die in this state of unforgiveness?

Does anyone have a Scriptural answer for this one?


God bless
Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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Ironman
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Re: How do Once Saved Always Saved people get passed Matthew 6:14-15

Post by Ironman »

"How would a once saved always saved person, (or reformed or ultra grace person) still believe that this UNFORGIVEN person could still have their salvation and go to Heaven should they die in this state of unforgiveness?

Does anyone have a Scriptural answer for this one?"
.

The Devil does.

God said;
Genesis 2:16, And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: v. 17, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

The Devil said;
Genesis 3:4, And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

These OSAS believers, believe what the Devil teaches, not what God teaches.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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branham1965
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Re: How do Once Saved Always Saved people get passed Matthew 6:14-15

Post by branham1965 »

I cannot understand the ultra grace or osas.

years ago in the old barber shop a Baptist fellow a mailman named Elmer was saying in 1 Corinthians 9:27 the word castaway meant being disapproved set aside or losing our testimony etc.

i did not say much to him. but even the Baptists do not believe and teach the extremes

like the big guns in the hyper grace camp do.


i remember my Pastor preaching on Matthew 18.

talk about conviction. we all felt it. we MUST forgive others or we will not be forgiven.



in Mark 11:23-25 this is one of the great passages of faith.

Dad Hagin pointed out verse 25.He said Jesus warned us where the

greatest danger or hindrance to faith would be.

unforgiveness.



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Re: How do Once Saved Always Saved people get passed Matthew 6:14-15

Post by bibleman »

Ironman wrote:
"How would a once saved always saved person, (or reformed or ultra grace person) still believe that this UNFORGIVEN person could still have their salvation and go to Heaven should they die in this state of unforgiveness?

Does anyone have a Scriptural answer for this one?"
.

The Devil does.

God said;
Genesis 2:16, And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: v. 17, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

The Devil said;
Genesis 3:4, And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

These OSAS believers, believe what the Devil teaches, not what God teaches.
Agreed! :angel:


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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bibleman
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Re: How do Once Saved Always Saved people get passed Matthew 6:14-15

Post by bibleman »

branham1965 wrote:I cannot understand the ultra grace or osas.

years ago in the old barber shop a Baptist fellow a mailman named Elmer was saying in 1 Corinthians 9:27 the word castaway meant being disapproved set aside or losing our testimony etc.

i did not say much to him. but even the Baptists do not believe and teach the extremes

like the big guns in the hyper grace camp do.


i remember my Pastor preaching on Matthew 18.

talk about conviction. we all felt it. we MUST forgive others or we will not be forgiven.



in Mark 11:23-25 this is one of the great passages of faith.

Dad Hagin pointed out verse 25.He said Jesus warned us where the

greatest danger or hindrance to faith would be.

unforgiveness.
I agree it is an hindrance to faith.

But Jesus said you WOULD NOT BE FORGIVEN OF SIN.

So what happens to a person who does NOT forgive with then die.

Is there a place in Heaven for those who have NOT been forgiven and washed buy the Blood of Jesus?


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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branham1965
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Re: How do Once Saved Always Saved people get passed Matthew 6:14-15

Post by branham1965 »

Pastor,
i thought that i gave an answer.please see line 7. :agrue:
bibleman wrote:
branham1965 wrote:I cannot understand the ultra grace or osas.

years ago in the old barber shop a Baptist fellow a mailman named Elmer was saying in 1 Corinthians 9:27 the word castaway meant being disapproved set aside or losing our testimony etc.

i did not say much to him. but even the Baptists do not believe and teach the extremes

like the big guns in the hyper grace camp do.


i remember my Pastor preaching on Matthew 18.

talk about conviction. we all felt it. we MUST forgive others or we will not be forgiven.



in Mark 11:23-25 this is one of the great passages of faith.

Dad Hagin pointed out verse 25.He said Jesus warned us where the

greatest danger or hindrance to faith would be.

unforgiveness.
I agree it is an hindrance to faith.

But Jesus said you WOULD NOT BE FORGIVEN OF SIN.

So what happens to a person who does NOT forgive with then die.

Is there a place in Heaven for those who have NOT been forgiven and washed buy the Blood of Jesus?



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branham1965
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Re: How do Once Saved Always Saved people get passed Matthew 6:14-15

Post by branham1965 »

We post this stuff but we do not believe it.

to me if it is not applied practically to our lives its worthless.



titus213
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Re: How do Once Saved Always Saved people get passed Matthew 6:14-15

Post by titus213 »

Usually those who teach OSAS respond to passages like Matthew 6:14-15, and many others that teach a believer can fall from grace, in one of three ways:

#1 the passages are said to be hypothetical only. The possibility of something is presented as if it could be true, only in order to motivate us (in this case, to be forgiving). But in reality it can never happen. A "true Christian" would never be unforgiving, so there would never be a case of God not forgiving them.

#2 the passages that sound like they warn about losing salvation are only talking about loss of fellowship in this life, or sometimes loss of heavenly rewards. In the case of Matthew 6, it's warning that the believer will find that even though he claims 1 John 1:9 for himself, if he harbors unforgiveness in his heart God won't be so "faithful and just" to forgive him his sins.

#3 these passages are referring to people who were never truly saved to begin with.

I think the OSAS doctrine can be proven wrong by a single English word that is used in two Bible passages dealing with this topic. It's the simple word, “again.” The passages are Luke 15:24 and Hebrews 6:6.

The first is the parable of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11-32). It starts with the prodigal son alive in the father’s house, which is equivalent to being a true believer. However, in the next stage the son is dead in a far country, having lost everything. He is still the father’s son, but he is a dead son. In the last stage he's alive again in the father’s arms. Here is what the father says when his prodigal son repents and returns home: “This my son of mine was dead, and has come to life again; he was lost, and has been found” (v. 24, NASB). The key verb here is “come to life again,” one word in the Greek. This shows two things. He cannot have come to life again if he had not already been alive at an earlier time. Also, he cannot have become alive again if he was not truly dead in the father's eyes while he was away.

The second “again” reference is from the crucial passage in Hebrews 6:4-8. Of course, the entire book of Hebrews presupposes the possibility of giving up one’s faith and falling from grace. The letter seems to be written for the express purpose of persuading some Hebrews (Jews) who had been converted to Christianity from changing their minds and returning to their Judaism. These verses show what a terrible mistake that would be. Verses 4-6 specifically say, “For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame” (NASB).

Once more the key word is “again” from verse 6, where it is said that for those who “have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance.” When the author speaks of renewing them again to repentance, this means that at one time they had repented, which is the mindset of a saved person. So they were truly once saved. Also, they could not be renewed again to repentance unless they had not been in a mindset of repentance once they had "fallen away." The picture the author paints is that, after having once repented, they abandoned that repentance and became lost.



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branham1965
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Re: How do Once Saved Always Saved people get passed Matthew 6:14-15

Post by branham1965 »

Thank you very much Pastor for that help... :angel: :angel:



titus213 wrote:Usually those who teach OSAS respond to passages like Matthew 6:14-15, and many others that teach a believer can fall from grace, in one of three ways:

#1 the passages are said to be hypothetical only. The possibility of something is presented as if it could be true, only in order to motivate us (in this case, to be forgiving). But in reality it can never happen. A "true Christian" would never be unforgiving, so there would never be a case of God not forgiving them.

#2 the passages that sound like they warn about losing salvation are only talking about loss of fellowship in this life, or sometimes loss of heavenly rewards. In the case of Matthew 6, it's warning that the believer will find that even though he claims 1 John 1:9 for himself, if he harbors unforgiveness in his heart God won't be so "faithful and just" to forgive him his sins.

#3 these passages are referring to people who were never truly saved to begin with.

I think the OSAS doctrine can be proven wrong by a single English word that is used in two Bible passages dealing with this topic. It's the simple word, “again.” The passages are Luke 15:24 and Hebrews 6:6.

The first is the parable of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11-32). It starts with the prodigal son alive in the father’s house, which is equivalent to being a true believer. However, in the next stage the son is dead in a far country, having lost everything. He is still the father’s son, but he is a dead son. In the last stage he's alive again in the father’s arms. Here is what the father says when his prodigal son repents and returns home: “This my son of mine was dead, and has come to life again; he was lost, and has been found” (v. 24, NASB). The key verb here is “come to life again,” one word in the Greek. This shows two things. He cannot have come to life again if he had not already been alive at an earlier time. Also, he cannot have become alive again if he was not truly dead in the father's eyes while he was away.

The second “again” reference is from the crucial passage in Hebrews 6:4-8. Of course, the entire book of Hebrews presupposes the possibility of giving up one’s faith and falling from grace. The letter seems to be written for the express purpose of persuading some Hebrews (Jews) who had been converted to Christianity from changing their minds and returning to their Judaism. These verses show what a terrible mistake that would be. Verses 4-6 specifically say, “For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame” (NASB).

Once more the key word is “again” from verse 6, where it is said that for those who “have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance.” When the author speaks of renewing them again to repentance, this means that at one time they had repented, which is the mindset of a saved person. So they were truly once saved. Also, they could not be renewed again to repentance unless they had not been in a mindset of repentance once they had "fallen away." The picture the author paints is that, after having once repented, they abandoned that repentance and became lost.



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