Dake Bible Discussion BoardBelieve ONLY and be saved? Anderson? Swaggart?

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branham1965
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Re: Believe ONLY and be saved? Anderson? Swaggart?

Post by branham1965 »

On pages 95-97 of God' Plan for man

there is a great section entitled "War on the Saints"

in the Dake Reference Bible it is on page 634.

and is in Bible Truths Unmasked pages 14-21 Chapter 3 The Reality of Spiritual Warfare.

in this chapter Reverend Dake powerfully expounds on this subject.He teaches in point 5

number 1 How to detect Counterfeit Religions and Demon Workings.

point number 12 How to tell when one is DECEIVED is very sobering.

we are a strange breed today.

we so often refuse to admit that we are wrong.

we cannot accept and refuse to accept that we are wrong or that we are deceived.

and all it does is hurt us and can kill us if we are not honest. it does not help us to follow false doctrine.it will not save us.

this hyper grace sin all you want thrives on that rebellion.



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luchnia
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Re: Believe ONLY and be saved? Anderson? Swaggart?

Post by luchnia »

Amen! Dake did not agree with the sinning saint lie. He never taught one could live in sin and be saved. He was very adamant about it as were all the great men of God.

Folks today simply don't get the message and they hear a watered down gospel of deception. They compromise the truth of God by mingling the seed. They somehow think they can live in sin and enter eternal life. We all know where that lie came from.

It should remind us of the words of the dark one, "you won't surely die..." I even hear people say, you are saved whether you sin or not. Another ridiculous statement is, "Jesus died for all sins, past, present, and future, so it does not matter what you do." Where does anyone get such ridiculous nonsense?

Imagine a man commits murder and is pardoned, then goes and commits murder again. Are people so naive to think that any court in the land will let him off the second time (much less the court of heaven) because he was let off when he committed his first murder? Normally the second offense is even worse judgment than the first.


Word up!

titus213
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Re: Believe ONLY and be saved? Anderson? Swaggart?

Post by titus213 »

When Jesus died on the cross, all of our sins were future.



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Doc
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Re: Believe ONLY and be saved? Anderson? Swaggart?

Post by Doc »

Well...here's the thing. I think what the kid is saying on the video is heartfelt, and I think he is simply trying to promote holiness, except those of us who are brought up in salvation in the holiness traditions, would approach it from a different scriptural perspective.
Romans 10:9 (AMP) - "Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

Note in the AMP translation how it builds in the interpretation from the original language what it means to BELIEVE. Herein lies the rub. The admonition from Paul is correct here. It is all and everything we need to do to initiate salvation. Is it enough to live holy and proper lives pleasing to God? Not really, unless we sincerely adhere to, trust in, and rely on Jesus.
Belief in Jesus is more than my belief in say, George Washington. The scripture says I must believe in not only who Jesus is, but also what God has done in Him for the benefit of the human race.

The young man quoted a lot from Jesus when He was alive, and it is all great truth, but it's pre death and resurrection. It is a lot of legal pre NT John the Baptist Law. It's a very heavily works laden teaching. Once Jesus went to the cross, even the OT saints who had been awaiting their release from Hades finally were set free by the Blood of Christ.

What I ACTUALLY need to do is simply believe (adhere to, rely on, trust in) Jesus Christ. I don't find what this kid is teaching to be what Dake taught. I find Dake to be a classic holiness teacher. I'm sure he got that from his years with the Church of God.

In watching the video I was not inspired. I felt more indoctrinated into a more legal and carnal way of trying to receive what has indeed been freely given to the world through the Cross of Christ. Once we are born again, then we can begin to renew our way of thinking and begin the journey (Romans 12) toward the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, known more prominently by the old timers as "second blessing holiness". The Baptism in the Holy Spirit is far more than just speaking in tongues, and while I believe in and appreciate that Pentecostal tradition and biblical truth, I also appreciate my holiness roots as well. Heart purity is the ultimate goal.

My two cents anyway.

Doc



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Re: Believe ONLY and be saved? Anderson? Swaggart?

Post by titus213 »

The old hymn says:

Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
let me hide myself in thee;
let the water and the blood,
from thy wounded side which flowed,
be of sin the double cure;
save from wrath and make me pure.


Grace provides the "double cure" for our double trouble. It saves from wrath because Jesus paid the penalty for ALL sin (Romans 1-5) and grace enables us to finally be able to obey God (Romans 6-8).

The problem with the hyper-grace people is that they ignore the 2nd part of the double cure, or at least distort it. But the response to their errors shouldn't be to distort the 1st part of the double cure. Either Jesus paid it all, or He didn't and we're stuck with having to pay for some. Either He took away the sin of the world, or He didn't, and plenty of it is still left un-atoned for.

We don't magnify Romans 6-8 by denigrating Romans 1-5.



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Re: Believe ONLY and be saved? Anderson? Swaggart?

Post by bibleman »

titus213 wrote:The old hymn says:

Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
let me hide myself in thee;
let the water and the blood,
from thy wounded side which flowed,
be of sin the double cure;
save from wrath and make me pure.


Grace provides the "double cure" for our double trouble. It saves from wrath because Jesus paid the penalty for ALL sin (Romans 1-5) and grace enables us to finally be able to obey God (Romans 6-8).

The problem with the hyper-grace people is that they ignore the 2nd part of the double cure, or at least distort it. But the response to their errors shouldn't be to distort the 1st part of the double cure. Either Jesus paid it all, or He didn't and we're stuck with having to pay for some. Either He took away the sin of the world, or He didn't, and plenty of it is still left un-atoned for.

We don't magnify Romans 6-8 by denigrating Romans 1-5.
HUM... just wondering here...

Above you said: " Either Jesus paid it all, or He didn't and we're stuck with having to pay for some. Either He took away the sin of the world, or He didn't, and plenty of it is still left un-atoned for."

What part of sin is "left un-atoned for?"


God bless
Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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Re: Believe ONLY and be saved? Anderson? Swaggart?

Post by stand »

The devil always tries to make simple thing complicated and twists the truth. The information in the video is straight from the scripture and I agree with that. Roman 10:9 is always about a state of a continuous process, not confess and believe one second and be saved even if the person deny and unbelieve later. Whenever people confess, which is obedient to Jesus, and believe with their heart, they have relationship with God and are saved. Once they are disobedient and/or unbelieve, they have no relationship with God and are unsaved. To me this is very simple and is straight from the Bible.



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Re: Believe ONLY and be saved? Anderson? Swaggart?

Post by bibleman »

Doc wrote:Well...here's the thing. I think what the kid is saying on the video is heartfelt, and I think he is simply trying to promote holiness, except those of us who are brought up in salvation in the holiness traditions, would approach it from a different scriptural perspective.
Romans 10:9 (AMP) - "Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

Note in the AMP translation how it builds in the interpretation from the original language what it means to BELIEVE. Herein lies the rub. The admonition from Paul is correct here. It is all and everything we need to do to initiate salvation. Is it enough to live holy and proper lives pleasing to God? Not really, unless we sincerely adhere to, trust in, and rely on Jesus.
Belief in Jesus is more than my belief in say, George Washington. The scripture says I must believe in not only who Jesus is, but also what God has done in Him for the benefit of the human race.

The young man quoted a lot from Jesus when He was alive, and it is all great truth, but it's pre death and resurrection. It is a lot of legal pre NT John the Baptist Law. It's a very heavily works laden teaching. Once Jesus went to the cross, even the OT saints who had been awaiting their release from Hades finally were set free by the Blood of Christ.

What I ACTUALLY need to do is simply believe (adhere to, rely on, trust in) Jesus Christ. I don't find what this kid is teaching to be what Dake taught. I find Dake to be a classic holiness teacher. I'm sure he got that from his years with the Church of God.

In watching the video I was not inspired. I felt more indoctrinated into a more legal and carnal way of trying to receive what has indeed been freely given to the world through the Cross of Christ. Once we are born again, then we can begin to renew our way of thinking and begin the journey (Romans 12) toward the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, known more prominently by the old timers as "second blessing holiness". The Baptism in the Holy Spirit is far more than just speaking in tongues, and while I believe in and appreciate that Pentecostal tradition and biblical truth, I also appreciate my holiness roots as well. Heart purity is the ultimate goal.

My two cents anyway.

Doc
Thanks for your input - I hear your heart and mostly agree. I would add the word "obey" to "(adhere to, rely on, trust in) Jesus Christ."

And as to Dake's influence by the Church of God... Well Dake was only affiliated with the Church of God for about 6 years (1942-1948) so his influence from them was not begun until he was about 40 years old. But I would not expect everyone to know that, many people associate Dake with the Church of God much more than it actually was, so no problem there.

But that be as it may....

"The young man quoted a lot from Jesus when He was alive, and it is all great truth, but it's pre death and resurrection. It is a lot of legal pre NT John the Baptist Law. It's a very heavily works laden teaching. Once Jesus went to the cross, even the OT saints who had been awaiting their release from Hades finally were set free by the Blood of Christ."

How do we reconcile that statement with Jesus words?

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


1) Does Jesus not tell us here (after the cross) to TEACH believers "all things whatsoever I have commanded you:"

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

2) Was Jesus wrong to tell us to Keep HIS words?

3) What words of Jesus are we NOT to keep today?


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

titus213
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Re: Believe ONLY and be saved? Anderson? Swaggart?

Post by titus213 »

None of it. That's my point.
bibleman wrote:
HUM... just wondering here...

Above you said: " Either Jesus paid it all, or He didn't and we're stuck with having to pay for some. Either He took away the sin of the world, or He didn't, and plenty of it is still left un-atoned for."

What part of sin is "left un-atoned for?"



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bibleman
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Re: Believe ONLY and be saved? Anderson? Swaggart?

Post by bibleman »

titus213 wrote:None of it. That's my point.
bibleman wrote:
HUM... just wondering here...

Above you said: " Either Jesus paid it all, or He didn't and we're stuck with having to pay for some. Either He took away the sin of the world, or He didn't, and plenty of it is still left un-atoned for."

What part of sin is "left un-atoned for?"
:angel:


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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