Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Correct Statement?

[Reuben]

God's love is unconditional but the benefits are conditional. True statement?

OK here is a different take.

God starts out loving EVERYONE unconditional,,, BUT he does NOT continue to love unconditional.

For example....

God hates those who do iniquity: Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"

God hates those who love violence: Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates."

God hates all those nations who have evil customs: Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them."

God hates those who have Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, that devises wicked plans, whose feet that run rapidly to evil, A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers." Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."

God hates those who have wicked deeds: Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."

What do you think?

God's love and hate is then controlled or determined by our reaction to his offer. Would that be a correct assessment? I have been thinking about this lately and we loosely throw that term "God's unconditional love" around like a blanket as if we remain in the good graces of God no matter what. I hear preachers all the time say that I cannot do anything to change God's love for me. It leaves me wondering, what are they really saying??? Does that mean if I commit adultery or kill someone - don't worry about it "I got you covered" sort of thing?

[luchnia]

I remember dealing with this unconditional stuff close to 30 years ago. Something simply was not right about the unconditional spew that was being taught from the pulpits and still runs rampant in society today. Just like the false sinning saint theology that is ever present today. Paul would be ripping his shirt in a fit of anger if he were here today to hear it. He taught the path to eternal torments just like Jesus and many others. Paul knew the conditions of God's love and taught them thoroughly. Just like John taught repent or burn. Not one facet of God's love is without condition and knowledge of the truth being tantamount.

Take for instance, love holds no record of wrongs. Can you imagine just how many conditions are on this one tiny facet of loving someone? It takes great discipline let along many other things. It is a condition to hold no record. On and on it goes. I could go on for hours on this subject.

From the first recorded incident of "thou shalt not surely die" shows the false teaching of unconditional love. The evil one likes to deceive mankind into believing "you know God won't do what He says because He loves you unconditionally". After all we let our kids do anything don't we? If they steal something, it is ok, we love them. Love not once in all of scripture ever negates truth of God. Yes, you will die if you disobey. It does not get any simpler. Today it is taught that one can sin their way to eternal life - most ridiculous to even think of such from righteous God that requires a condition of belief.

Folks use the "you love your children unconditionally don't you?" to try to teach some parallel not realizing that is not even close to accurate. There is an age when one becomes accountable to God. Our children are our responsibility to raise and you cannot save them. If so, not one parent would not save their children. When they become accountable to God they must believe to get to His grace just like any other person. God will not unconditionally force salvation on them. Grace requires faith and that requires a total heart commitment to God.

Flame suit on

[victoryword]

Remember that Dake taught us that we are take the Bible literally EXECEPT when it is obvious that there is another meaning (paraphrasing him) and if there is another meaning then we are to find out what that meaning is.

"Hatred" when used in connection with God (and even some places with men) is idiomatic. It usually means to have less of a preference for one thing than another. If this is not true then not only is Jesus contradicting His own Word when He tells us to love our spouses and honor our parents but in another place He tells us to hate them. The Calvinists are also right when they use Romans 9 (Jacob I loved, Esau I hated) to teach divine reprobation.

[Ironman]

Love and obey God and receive all the promised blessings.

Ignore God and disobey Him and receive all the promised punishments.

Its all there in His Word.

That is indisputable and I agree with you Ironman but does Bibleman have a valid point above? Does his love become conditional? It's interesting that Jesus defined love by obeying or keeping the Word so in essence love is an action or doing concept. That being the case then is God's love defined the same way? Does repentance open up the fountain of God's love to flow into the life and be realized and demonstrated?

Just a lot of thinking outloud so-to-speak.

You wrote;

Does repentance open up the fountain of God's love to flow into the life and be realized and demonstrated?

I believe it does.
In my lay-mans humble opinion, a fathers love is unconditional. But if a child sins and breaks away from a father and family, I speak from experience, the fathers sincere love for the child is still there, but for the totally unconditional love to be returned "unconditionally," that is, without any conditions at all, the child must repent of the sins committed and strive never to go that way again.

Luke 15:7, I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Luke 15:10, Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

[luchnia]

God is love. The conditions of love are bound out of purpose from wisdom that show God's character. Love is not love without God's wisdom and understanding. One of the first conditions of God's love to man that He created: “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” His requirements/conditions have existed from the beginning with His wisdom. Unconditional is a poor word to use for anything related to God - not even a millisecond of time exist without conditions.

[Reuben]

I appreciate the discussion. Good thoughts to ponder.

For some reason the "unconditional" term seems a bit odd to me as well. I'm not going overboard but maybe because of the abuses it has become that to me.

[branham1965]

Reverend

shalom.

i think watching DAD HAGIN on youtube really is healthy for any of us in regard to these issues.

I appreciate the discussion. Good thoughts to ponder.

For some reason the "unconditional" term seems a bit odd to me as well. I'm not going overboard but maybe because of the abuses it has become that to me.