Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ The Disciples

[macca]

I was trying to show how Jesus depended upon His Father and the Holy Spirit for all He (Jesus) said, did, as in works,,,, John 5:17;
Jesus did not mighty work until He was baptised in the Holy Spirit and according to Phil 2:5-11; Jesus emptied Himself to become a bondservant to His Father
Jesus left an example for us in this, according to Paul, of total dependence on the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit in our Christian life.
As we see Jesus work (in the spirit) we work also,,, as we immerse ourselves into the Father, the Son and The Holy Spirit we will do what Jesus did and much greater as He said.


macca

[titus213]

Yes, I think I got your drift once you explained after I asked "how so".
We have to keep the entire context of John's gospel in view when we think about John 17 as well. Even before that chapter Jesus had already made many statements (including a whole section in John 5) showing that he did nothing independently of the Father. Every one of the statements below comes from an earlier chapter in John:

• I assure you that the Son can’t do anything by himself except what he sees the Father doing.
  Whatever the Father does, the Son does likewise.
  The Father loves the Son and shows him everything that he does.
  I can’t do anything by myself.
  I don’t seek my own will but the will of the one who sent me.
  Everyone whom the Father gives to me will come to me, and I won’t send away anyone who comes to me.
  I have come down from heaven not to do my will, but the will of him who sent me.
  My teaching isn’t mine but comes from the one who sent me.
  I do nothing on my own, but I say just what the Father has taught me.
  He who sent me is with me. He doesn’t leave me by myself, because I always do what makes him happy.
  I’m talking about things I have seen while keeping company with the Father
  Everything I have done has been authorized by my Father
  My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all
  I and the Father are one
  If I don’t do the works of my Father, don’t believe me. But if I do them, and you don’t believe me, believe the works so that you can know and recognize that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.
  Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me?
  The words I have spoken to you I don’t speak on my own.
  The Father who dwells in me does his works.
  Trust me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or at least believe on account of the works themselves

I was trying to show how Jesus depended upon His Father and the Holy Spirit for all He (Jesus) said, did, as in works,,,, John 5:17;
Jesus did not mighty work until He was baptised in the Holy Spirit and according to Phil 2:5-11; Jesus emptied Himself to become a bondservant to His Father
Jesus left an example for us in this, according to Paul, of total dependence on the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit in our Christian life.
As we see Jesus work (in the spirit) we work also,,, as we immerse ourselves into the Father, the Son and The Holy Spirit we will do what Jesus did and much greater as He said.


macca

[luchnia]

Just goes to show how much responsibility a man has. If we would just step back and look at how Jesus chose people and how God chose people. Making choice of men was based on certain criteria, just like the disciples and like the conditions of God's grace.

From the beginning it was essentially IF YOU DO this I will do such and such. I like what Jesus said, "YOU must be born again" not, "I will born you again". Amazing how much difference there is in what God's word implies than what is taught today from the mouths of men. Maybe men should start teaching the conditions of choosing God and salvation, or answering the call as the disciples had to do. It might be a very eye opening study!

[macca]

makes interesting reading

http://www.renner.org/holy-spirit/being ... ly-spirit/

[luchnia]

This whole concept reminds me of how people will say, "I am filled with the Spirit" for enduement of power and I will ask them, when did you ask for the Spirit? They raise an eyebrow and usually say, "I did not have to ask, God does it." Ironically they have failed to read what the scriptures have to say about it in Matthew 7:11 and Luke 11:13.

So much to learn, so little time

[titus213]

makes interesting reading

http://www.renner.org/holy-spirit/being ... ly-spirit/

In the article Rick Renner asks:

But why didn'€™t Jesus stop and heal the blind men when He first saw them? Why didn'€™t He immediately turn to heal them when He recognized their blind condition? And why did He answer them, "According to your faith be it unto you"€?

Jesus evidently did not sense the anointing to heal at that moment; otherwise, He would have stopped to lay His hands on those men.

He is speculating, and I think his speculation is interesting, but mistaken. Jesus was always anointed by the Spirit from the beginning of his ministry (Luke 4.14-19), and had the full measure of the Spirit without limit (John 3.34). My speculation would be that Jesus didn't heal them right away because (a) he wanted to test their faith . . . were they just looking for a quick fix or something more? and (b) he wanted to heal them in private -- he waited until he was in a house, and warned them not to let anyone know about it.

But that's just my speculation as well, because the Bible passage doesn't tell us. I wouldn't want to try to establish any teaching or practice based on the Bible's silence and my speculation!

[macca]

Yep. Good post
it's all very interesting