Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Questions Young Earth Theorists Have Not Been Able to Answer

[Ironman]

Hi ray.
I assume you have read read this part of a long previous post of mine, I mean without glossing over Scripture that doesn't line up with what you think about the creation doctrine?

The pre Adamite world, there is so, so much found in Scriptures regarding this doctrin, many dozens of Scriptures support this. If this is false teaching, it amuses me that no one comes up with nothing more than Noah's flood, which occured much later, did not completly destroy the Earth, did not shake mountains, did not turn them upside down, did not block out the off the stars and the sun and moon so that there was no light.
It stands to reason that God had already created the Heavens, they were in existence as well as the Earth only their lights were withheld from shining on the Earth thus causing darkness Gen. 1:2.

There was no darkness during Noah's flood? There were men and animals on the earth before Noah's flood, and Noah and his family and the animals survived the flood and were remained on the Earth after it?

That the Earth ONLY (became) without form and void (Hebrew tohu vabobu, litterally wast and ruin or desolate and empty), as in Gen. 1:2. That there were mountains of Earth that were shaken and turned upside down by an earthquake so severe, which no doubt caused the remains of animals to be deposited in the very depths of the Earth beneath many layers of solid rock, such as are now been found. Noah's flood never buried animals hundreds of meters beneath solid rock.

Many prove the doctrin of a pre-Adamite world.

To try and put this in a nutshell, God created the heavens first, then the Earth, all in the beginning or in the dateless past (Gen. 1:1; Job 38:4-7). He caused the heavens and the Earth to be inhabited and gave Lucifer control of the Earth-kingdom, don't believe me, read, (Coll. 1:15-18; Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Lucifer, now called Satan, and the spirit rebels caused man to fall, and they regained dominion of the earth through Adam's submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). They have been in control ever since and will be in control untill the second coming of Christ, who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium and make a New Heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth all righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5). Why does science show the earth to be many millions of years old and the Bible "(allegedly)" says it is only six thousand years old? So, as with everything missunderstood in Scripture men call what they do not understand a theory. Hence, the gap theory, or even a herecy. But there was a gap and its no theory. Scripture shows there was a creation "in the beginning" and then a re-creation.

If we take the time to carefully read all the Scriptures regarding this doctrin and not just skim over them retaining old knowledge in the mind, and the READ these below, which backs up what is said, and see for yourselves

You see, God spoke, and as soon as the materials were made, God created and formed with His hands the heavens, with all its light and darkness first, then the Earth, all in the beginning, or in the dateless past (Gen. 1:1; Job 38:4-7). God created the heavens and the earth to be inhabited and He gave Lucifer control of the Earth kingdom (Col. 1:15-18; Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14). Lucifer obeyed God and ruled for an unknown time before he rebelled and invaded heaven to try and de-throne (Ezek 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Naturally Lucifer was defeated, and his kingdom on the earth was totally destroyed by a flood and by the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1;2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6), hence the severe geological contortions of the earth's crust, vast deposits of bones in various places world wide, fossiles thousands or millions of years old etc. The earth was turned upside down in this process, ever wondered why the moon is poc marked by countless craters, and yet we never see anything plowing into it these days causing such destruction. What about the other dead planets in our immediate solar system? The flood God caused to cover the earth remained for an unknown period of time, and then God, in six days restored the earth to a habitable state and made Adam and his creation to carry out the original plan of God conserning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer and his spirit rebels caused man to fall and by this regained dominion of the earth through Adams submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). Lucifer has been in control ever since and he will remain in control untill the second coming of Jesus Christ who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium. God will then finally make a New heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5).

This doctrin is too simple for most men to understand, so they reject it.

Now, 2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world THAT THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, PERISHED:
But the heavens and the Earth, WHICH ARE NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is where people become confused and say the world "that then was," was the world before Noah's flood, but this cannot be because:

If the world that THAT THEN WAS" is that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God created The heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW" since the flood of Noah. Noah and his family lived prior to his flood and after it. The world "THAT THEN WAS PERISHED" and everything in it also perished. What change could Noah's flood make to the heavens? None, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. The earth, vegetation, the heavens, all remained the same after Noah's flood.

Peter, in (2 Peter 3:3-7) taught that scoffers were totally ignorant of the flood that destroyed the social system and the earth "that then was" (lucifers flood). These scoffers all knew of Noah's flood and still know today. This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original creation was hidden from them, while they knew about Noah's flood.

What was it that the scoffers were ignorant of unless it was the destruction of the social system before Adam?

This is the doctrin of which men are still ignorant of, which they call "the gap theory." Peter said that the scoffers were willingly ignorant of this truth showing that it is a clear doctrin of Scripture if men would stop being ignorant of it. There are many Scriptures that make this doctrin clear; so "If any man wants to be ignorant, let him be ignorant," as Paul expressed in (1 Cor. 14:38).

Peter said these scoffers of the last days, the days we are in now, since Noah, would be ignorant of the fact that the heavens were of old; that the social system ruled by Lucifer on the old Earth perished by water; that the heavens and the Earth since the six days of restoration are kept in store to be purified again- the next time by fire; that the Lord is not slack concerning His promises of final restoration of the earth to its third perfect state; and that God was longsuffering to all men, not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance.

[You said; Thanks Haz,
For the response. I know it must have taken a while to put down such a detailed account of what you believe
on this subject. Some of what you present I agree with and cannot be refuted with Scripture. But there is
some statements made in your response I would like to comment on when I have a little more time.]

Its not what I personally believe, its what I believe because, "It is written!" Can you explain this? "Peter, in (2 Peter 3:3-7) taught that scoffers were totally ignorant of the flood that destroyed the social system and the earth "that then was" (lucifers flood). These scoffers all knew of Noah's flood and still know today. This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original creation was hidden from them, while they knew about Noah's flood.

[Ray]

Hi ray.
I assume you have read read this part of a long previous post of mine, I mean without glossing over Scripture that doesn't line up with what you think about the creation doctrine?

The pre Adamite world, there is so, so much found in Scriptures regarding this doctrin, many dozens of Scriptures support this. If this is false teaching, it amuses me that no one comes up with nothing more than Noah's flood, which occured much later, did not completly destroy the Earth, did not shake mountains, did not turn them upside down, did not block out the off the stars and the sun and moon so that there was no light.
It stands to reason that God had already created the Heavens, they were in existence as well as the Earth only their lights were withheld from shining on the Earth thus causing darkness Gen. 1:2.

There was no darkness during Noah's flood? There were men and animals on the earth before Noah's flood, and Noah and his family and the animals survived the flood and were remained on the Earth after it?

That the Earth ONLY (became) without form and void (Hebrew tohu vabobu, litterally wast and ruin or desolate and empty), as in Gen. 1:2. That there were mountains of Earth that were shaken and turned upside down by an earthquake so severe, which no doubt caused the remains of animals to be deposited in the very depths of the Earth beneath many layers of solid rock, such as are now been found. Noah's flood never buried animals hundreds of meters beneath solid rock.

Many prove the doctrin of a pre-Adamite world.

To try and put this in a nutshell, God created the heavens first, then the Earth, all in the beginning or in the dateless past (Gen. 1:1; Job 38:4-7). He caused the heavens and the Earth to be inhabited and gave Lucifer control of the Earth-kingdom, don't believe me, read, (Coll. 1:15-18; Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Lucifer, now called Satan, and the spirit rebels caused man to fall, and they regained dominion of the earth through Adam's submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). They have been in control ever since and will be in control untill the second coming of Christ, who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium and make a New Heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth all righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5). Why does science show the earth to be many millions of years old and the Bible "(allegedly)" says it is only six thousand years old? So, as with everything missunderstood in Scripture men call what they do not understand a theory. Hence, the gap theory, or even a herecy. But there was a gap and its no theory. Scripture shows there was a creation "in the beginning" and then a re-creation.

If we take the time to carefully read all the Scriptures regarding this doctrin and not just skim over them retaining old knowledge in the mind, and the READ these below, which backs up what is said, and see for yourselves

You see, God spoke, and as soon as the materials were made, God created and formed with His hands the heavens, with all its light and darkness first, then the Earth, all in the beginning, or in the dateless past (Gen. 1:1; Job 38:4-7). God created the heavens and the earth to be inhabited and He gave Lucifer control of the Earth kingdom (Col. 1:15-18; Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14). Lucifer obeyed God and ruled for an unknown time before he rebelled and invaded heaven to try and de-throne (Ezek 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Naturally Lucifer was defeated, and his kingdom on the earth was totally destroyed by a flood and by the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1;2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6), hence the severe geological contortions of the earth's crust, vast deposits of bones in various places world wide, fossiles thousands or millions of years old etc. The earth was turned upside down in this process, ever wondered why the moon is poc marked by countless craters, and yet we never see anything plowing into it these days causing such destruction. What about the other dead planets in our immediate solar system? The flood God caused to cover the earth remained for an unknown period of time, and then God, in six days restored the earth to a habitable state and made Adam and his creation to carry out the original plan of God conserning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer and his spirit rebels caused man to fall and by this regained dominion of the earth through Adams submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). Lucifer has been in control ever since and he will remain in control untill the second coming of Jesus Christ who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium. God will then finally make a New heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5).

This doctrin is too simple for most men to understand, so they reject it.

Now, 2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world THAT THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, PERISHED:
But the heavens and the Earth, WHICH ARE NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is where people become confused and say the world "that then was," was the world before Noah's flood, but this cannot be because:

If the world that THAT THEN WAS" is that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God created The heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW" since the flood of Noah. Noah and his family lived prior to his flood and after it. The world "THAT THEN WAS PERISHED" and everything in it also perished. What change could Noah's flood make to the heavens? None, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. The earth, vegetation, the heavens, all remained the same after Noah's flood.

Peter, in (2 Peter 3:3-7) taught that scoffers were totally ignorant of the flood that destroyed the social system and the earth "that then was" (lucifers flood). These scoffers all knew of Noah's flood and still know today. This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original creation was hidden from them, while they knew about Noah's flood.

What was it that the scoffers were ignorant of unless it was the destruction of the social system before Adam?

This is the doctrin of which men are still ignorant of, which they call "the gap theory." Peter said that the scoffers were willingly ignorant of this truth showing that it is a clear doctrin of Scripture if men would stop being ignorant of it. There are many Scriptures that make this doctrin clear; so "If any man wants to be ignorant, let him be ignorant," as Paul expressed in (1 Cor. 14:38).

Peter said these scoffers of the last days, the days we are in now, since Noah, would be ignorant of the fact that the heavens were of old; that the social system ruled by Lucifer on the old Earth perished by water; that the heavens and the Earth since the six days of restoration are kept in store to be purified again- the next time by fire; that the Lord is not slack concerning His promises of final restoration of the earth to its third perfect state; and that God was longsuffering to all men, not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance.

[You said; Thanks Haz,
For the response. I know it must have taken a while to put down such a detailed account of what you believe
on this subject. Some of what you present I agree with and cannot be refuted with Scripture. But there is
some statements made in your response I would like to comment on when I have a little more time.]

Its not what I personally believe, its what I believe because, "It is written!" Can you explain this? "Peter, in (2 Peter 3:3-7) taught that scoffers were totally ignorant of the flood that destroyed the social system and the earth "that then was" (lucifers flood). These scoffers all knew of Noah's flood and still know today. This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original creation was hidden from them, while they knew about Noah's flood.

Hello Haz,

I copied what is below from one of Leon's Posts that he copied from the Dake Bible.

Made defined
Hebrew `asah (HSN-<H6213>), to make out of already existing material (opposite of bara' (HSN-<H1254>), to create;

Above is Pretty much the same as you have written several times Haz.

What I understand of the made and create definitions according to the Dake Bible and you (Haz) and Leon's
posts is the words
"MAKE or MADE" is to make out of already existing material.
"CREATE or CREATED" is to make something out of Nothing.
Dake even goes as far as to say these are opposites

(Correct me if I'm misunderstanding Rev.Dake and his word definitions as produced above)

NOW I respect Finis Dake as a Man of GOD, I respect his beliefs and his writings and accomplishments.
BUT I do not agree with him on some of his teachings (I guess you already know that) I have nothing
against the man and nothing against those who believe and teach his teachings.

Now if the definitions above are accurate the verse below makes No sense and is False.
Genesis 5:1 King James Version (KJV)
5 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

Clearly the verse above presents GOD "CREATED" man and GOD "MADE" him.
Just this ONE VERSE alone Completely refutes the definition you have come to believe and teach.

In the verse below reveals GOD "Created" man.
Isaiah 45:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

I think we ALL agree that man was produced from the dust of the earth. ("MAKE or MADE" is to make out of already existing material.)

Yet the Isaiah 45 passage above states GOD "Created" man. ("CREATE or CREATED" is to make something out of Nothing.)

What I have presented above proves TO ME that what Dake (and you Brothers) teach is Clearly refuted and
proven false.

Now I may get kicked of the forum for this post, But I will not Lie or agree to what I see as False to be
TRUTH.

You Brothers probably will ignore what I wrote above, maybe pretend it's not there as it's the ONLY way
you can cling to what you have come to believe.

One of the Greatest reasons your Creation Doctrine (To ME) completely fails and is destroyed is what I presented above makes the verse below Present THE TRUTH of SCRIPTURE Just as it is written.

Exodus 20:11King James Version (KJV)
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


Haz, In your post above this one you use the words re-created, re-create that are found NOWHERE in GOD'S WORD.

You mention "glossing over Scripture that doesn't line up with what you think about the creation doctrine?"
NO I don't Haz I consider ALL Scripture to decide where to Stand.

Do you Haz "gloss over Scripture that doesn't line up with what you think about the creation doctrine?"
If you don't you really need to reconsider this "MADE" vs. "CREATE" thing that I wrote a little about above.

Then you mention what science shows, well science actually PROVES very little.
Science teaches that your great, great grand father was a monkey and his was a rock.

[bibleman]

Hi ray.
I assume you have read read this part of a long previous post of mine, I mean without glossing over Scripture that doesn't line up with what you think about the creation doctrine?

The pre Adamite world, there is so, so much found in Scriptures regarding this doctrin, many dozens of Scriptures support this. If this is false teaching, it amuses me that no one comes up with nothing more than Noah's flood, which occured much later, did not completly destroy the Earth, did not shake mountains, did not turn them upside down, did not block out the off the stars and the sun and moon so that there was no light.
It stands to reason that God had already created the Heavens, they were in existence as well as the Earth only their lights were withheld from shining on the Earth thus causing darkness Gen. 1:2.

There was no darkness during Noah's flood? There were men and animals on the earth before Noah's flood, and Noah and his family and the animals survived the flood and were remained on the Earth after it?

That the Earth ONLY (became) without form and void (Hebrew tohu vabobu, litterally wast and ruin or desolate and empty), as in Gen. 1:2. That there were mountains of Earth that were shaken and turned upside down by an earthquake so severe, which no doubt caused the remains of animals to be deposited in the very depths of the Earth beneath many layers of solid rock, such as are now been found. Noah's flood never buried animals hundreds of meters beneath solid rock.

Many prove the doctrin of a pre-Adamite world.

To try and put this in a nutshell, God created the heavens first, then the Earth, all in the beginning or in the dateless past (Gen. 1:1; Job 38:4-7). He caused the heavens and the Earth to be inhabited and gave Lucifer control of the Earth-kingdom, don't believe me, read, (Coll. 1:15-18; Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Lucifer, now called Satan, and the spirit rebels caused man to fall, and they regained dominion of the earth through Adam's submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). They have been in control ever since and will be in control untill the second coming of Christ, who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium and make a New Heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth all righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5). Why does science show the earth to be many millions of years old and the Bible "(allegedly)" says it is only six thousand years old? So, as with everything missunderstood in Scripture men call what they do not understand a theory. Hence, the gap theory, or even a herecy. But there was a gap and its no theory. Scripture shows there was a creation "in the beginning" and then a re-creation.

If we take the time to carefully read all the Scriptures regarding this doctrin and not just skim over them retaining old knowledge in the mind, and the READ these below, which backs up what is said, and see for yourselves

You see, God spoke, and as soon as the materials were made, God created and formed with His hands the heavens, with all its light and darkness first, then the Earth, all in the beginning, or in the dateless past (Gen. 1:1; Job 38:4-7). God created the heavens and the earth to be inhabited and He gave Lucifer control of the Earth kingdom (Col. 1:15-18; Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14). Lucifer obeyed God and ruled for an unknown time before he rebelled and invaded heaven to try and de-throne (Ezek 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Naturally Lucifer was defeated, and his kingdom on the earth was totally destroyed by a flood and by the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1;2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6), hence the severe geological contortions of the earth's crust, vast deposits of bones in various places world wide, fossiles thousands or millions of years old etc. The earth was turned upside down in this process, ever wondered why the moon is poc marked by countless craters, and yet we never see anything plowing into it these days causing such destruction. What about the other dead planets in our immediate solar system? The flood God caused to cover the earth remained for an unknown period of time, and then God, in six days restored the earth to a habitable state and made Adam and his creation to carry out the original plan of God conserning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer and his spirit rebels caused man to fall and by this regained dominion of the earth through Adams submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). Lucifer has been in control ever since and he will remain in control untill the second coming of Jesus Christ who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium. God will then finally make a New heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5).

This doctrin is too simple for most men to understand, so they reject it.

Now, 2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world THAT THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, PERISHED:
But the heavens and the Earth, WHICH ARE NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is where people become confused and say the world "that then was," was the world before Noah's flood, but this cannot be because:

If the world that THAT THEN WAS" is that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God created The heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW" since the flood of Noah. Noah and his family lived prior to his flood and after it. The world "THAT THEN WAS PERISHED" and everything in it also perished. What change could Noah's flood make to the heavens? None, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. The earth, vegetation, the heavens, all remained the same after Noah's flood.

Peter, in (2 Peter 3:3-7) taught that scoffers were totally ignorant of the flood that destroyed the social system and the earth "that then was" (lucifers flood). These scoffers all knew of Noah's flood and still know today. This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original creation was hidden from them, while they knew about Noah's flood.

What was it that the scoffers were ignorant of unless it was the destruction of the social system before Adam?

This is the doctrin of which men are still ignorant of, which they call "the gap theory." Peter said that the scoffers were willingly ignorant of this truth showing that it is a clear doctrin of Scripture if men would stop being ignorant of it. There are many Scriptures that make this doctrin clear; so "If any man wants to be ignorant, let him be ignorant," as Paul expressed in (1 Cor. 14:38).

Peter said these scoffers of the last days, the days we are in now, since Noah, would be ignorant of the fact that the heavens were of old; that the social system ruled by Lucifer on the old Earth perished by water; that the heavens and the Earth since the six days of restoration are kept in store to be purified again- the next time by fire; that the Lord is not slack concerning His promises of final restoration of the earth to its third perfect state; and that God was longsuffering to all men, not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance.

[You said; Thanks Haz,
For the response. I know it must have taken a while to put down such a detailed account of what you believe
on this subject. Some of what you present I agree with and cannot be refuted with Scripture. But there is
some statements made in your response I would like to comment on when I have a little more time.]

Its not what I personally believe, its what I believe because, "It is written!" Can you explain this? "Peter, in (2 Peter 3:3-7) taught that scoffers were totally ignorant of the flood that destroyed the social system and the earth "that then was" (lucifers flood). These scoffers all knew of Noah's flood and still know today. This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original creation was hidden from them, while they knew about Noah's flood.

Hello Haz,

I copied what is below from one of Leon's Posts that he copied from the Dake Bible.

Made defined
Hebrew `asah (HSN-<H6213>), to make out of already existing material (opposite of bara' (HSN-<H1254>), to create;

Above is Pretty much the same as you have written several times Haz.

What I understand of the made and create definitions according to the Dake Bible and you (Haz) and Leon's
posts is the words
"MAKE or MADE" is to make out of already existing material.
"CREATE or CREATED" is to make something out of Nothing.
Dake even goes as far as to say these are opposites

(Correct me if I'm misunderstanding Rev.Dake and his word definitions as produced above)

NOW I respect Finis Dake as a Man of GOD, I respect his beliefs and his writings and accomplishments.
BUT I do not agree with him on some of his teachings (I guess you already know that) I have nothing
against the man and nothing against those who believe and teach his teachings.

Now if the definitions above are accurate the verse below makes No sense and is False.
Genesis 5:1 King James Version (KJV)
5 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

Clearly the verse above presents GOD "CREATED" man and GOD "MADE" him.
Just this ONE VERSE alone Completely refutes the definition you have come to believe and teach.

In the verse below reveals GOD "Created" man.
Isaiah 45:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

I think we ALL agree that man was produced from the dust of the earth. ("MAKE or MADE" is to make out of already existing material.)

Yet the Isaiah 45 passage above states GOD "Created" man. ("CREATE or CREATED" is to make something out of Nothing.)

What I have presented above proves TO ME that what Dake (and you Brothers) teach is Clearly refuted and
proven false.

Now I may get kicked of the forum for this post, But I will not Lie or agree to what I see as False to be
TRUTH.

You Brothers probably will ignore what I wrote above, maybe pretend it's not there as it's the ONLY way
you can cling to what you have come to believe.

One of the Greatest reasons your Creation Doctrine (To ME) completely fails and is destroyed is what I presented above makes the verse below Present THE TRUTH of SCRIPTURE Just as it is written.

Exodus 20:11King James Version (KJV)
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


Haz, In your post above this one you use the words re-created, re-create that are found NOWHERE in GOD'S WORD.

You mention "glossing over Scripture that doesn't line up with what you think about the creation doctrine?"
NO I don't Haz I consider ALL Scripture to decide where to Stand.

Do you Haz "gloss over Scripture that doesn't line up with what you think about the creation doctrine?"
If you don't you really need to reconsider this "MADE" vs. "CREATE" thing that I wrote a little about above.

Then you mention what science shows, well science actually PROVES very little.
Science teaches that your great, great grand father was a monkey and his was a rock.

Ray,

Your supposition is totally wrong.

It would be nice if you knew a little about Dake... before you go off on these wild thesis of yours that are not founded in reality.

Dake believes that man was created and made.

Fifteen Things God Has Done
1. He commanded men to keep His precepts (Ps. 119:4).
2. He rebuked the proud (Ps. 119:21).
3. He heard prayer (Ps. 119:26).
4. He caused men to hope (Ps. 119:49).
5. He quickened men (Ps. 119:50,93).
6. He dealt well with men (Ps. 119:65,68).
7. He created and made man (Ps. 119:73).
Finis Jennings Dake, Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Bible Sales, Inc., 1997), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "Psalm 119".

[Ironman]

Hi ray.
You wrote;

"Then you mention what science shows, well science actually PROVES very little.
Science teaches that your great, great grand father was a monkey and his was a rock."

.

Sorry Ray, That's your opinion, nothing more! Science does not teach this, evolutionists teach this rubbish!

Here's what eight hundred Scientists of Great Britain, recorded in the Bodelian Library, Oxford, England say about science and the Word of God!

["We the undersigned, Students of the Natural Sciences, desire to express our sincere regret that researchers into scientific truth are perverted by some in our own times into occasion for casting doubt upon the truth and authenticity of the Holy Scriptures. We concieve that it is impossible for the Word of God written in the book of nature, and God's Word written in the Holy Scripture, to contradict one another . . . physical science is not complete, but is only in a condition of progress."----Signed, by eight hundred Scientists of Great Britain, recorded in the Bodelian Library, Oxford, England."]

[Ironman]

Hi Ray.

FYI, if your interested.

The Bible was given piecemeal, here a little and there a little, to many men through eighteen centuries or more (Isa. 28:9-11). And in spite of this it formes a perfect unity. Many men have gone outside the Bible searching for their brand of religion and many more have tried in vain to disprove it, and all have failed to do so. "ME INCLUDED." I have failed miserably, and I praise God's Holy Name for proving me wrong!

Just one classic well documented example: In San Francisco in 1921 Robert Dick Wilson, Ph. D., D.D., professor of Semetic Philology in Princeton University, said these words. "As a young man I began to hear criticism of the Bible. I made up my mind that i would consecrate my whole life to finding out if the Bible was genuin and authentic. For fifteen years I studied and mastered the ancient languages and dialects so I could examine all the ancient versions and manuscripts of the Bible. I spent another fifteen years in Bible textual study of these ancient documents. I spent another fifteen years in writing out what I had learned so that the whole church might share them. After forty-five years I am fully convinced that the Bible, as we know it, is genuin and authentic. No man knows enough to assail the truthfullness of the Old Testament upon which the New testament is based. Once in order to answer a single sentance of a critic of the Bible, I read all the extant literature of that period in numerous languages, and collect together no less that 100,000 citations from that literature in order to get at the facts and disprove the argument of the critic of the Bible."

Prophecy alone proves the inspiration of Scripture. This alone is indisputable proof, for there are hundreds of prophecies spoken centuries before fulfilment which exclude all human possibility of fulfilment. They are in such infinit detail as to be beyond all human power to predict. There were 333 prophecies fulfilled in the life of Christ. Hundreds have been fulfilled in the rise and fall of nations and numerous other events. There are many now being fulfilled and yet to be fulfilled. About 3.268 verses of the Bible prophecies of thousands of details have been fulfilled. not one detail of any prediction that should have been fulfilled up to 1948 has ever failed. Those that have not been fulfilled will be in due time. Only God could fortell such future events, thus proving the Bible to be a revelation of God by inspiration. According to the laws of simple compound probability, the 333 prophecies of Christ could have only one chance in one and ninety seven ciphers of fulfilment. Not one man has ever found one failure in prophecy after trying a whole lifetime to do so, so I can at least rest assured that the Bible is God's Divine Word.

The Bible is a literary composition, and the Bible is the most remarkable book ever written. It is a divine library of sixty-six books, some of considerable size, and others no larger than a tract. All these books include various forms of literature history, biography, poetry, proverbial sayings, hymns, letters, directions for elaborate ritualistic worship, laws, parables, riddles, allegories, prophecy, drama, and all other forms of human expression. The Bible never has been excelled from any standpoint. This book contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the reward and happiness of believers. Its doctrin's are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories true, and its decisions immutable.

The Bible is a mirror to reflect (James 1:23); a hammer to convict (Jer. 23:29); a fire to refine (Jer. 23:29); seed to multiply (1 Pet. 1:23); water to cleanse (Eph. 5:26; John 15:3); a lamp to guide (Ps. 119:105); and food to nourish, including milk for babes (1 Pet. 2:2), it is bread for the hungry (Matt. 4:4), meat for men (Heb. 5:11-14), and it is honey for dessert (Ps. 19:10). It is rain and snow to refresh (Isa. 55:10); a sword to cut (Heb. 4:12; a bow to revenge (Heb. 3:9); it is gold to enrich (Ps. 19:7-10); and it reveals the power who creates life through faith (1 Pet. 1:23; Rom. 10:17).

The Bible is not an amulet, a charm, a fetish or a thing that will work wonders by its very presence without any voluntary agency. The Bible does not claim to be any such thing. What the Bible does claim is that if one will study and practice it that it will work wonders in the life now and hereafter. The Bible does not benefit men by its presence, such as in hotel rooms, by a bedside, in a home, or a factory, any more than a spring of cool water benefits a thirsty man who refuses to drink.

The Bible is not a book of chronological events or one unbroken series of divine utterances. The Bible was given piecemeal, here a little and there a little, to many men through eighteen centuries or more (Isa. 28:9-11). And in spite of this it formes a perfect unity. The Bible is not a book of mysteries, of supernatural languages, of heavenly utterances. It is God's Revelation in the most simple human language possible. It explains the so-called mysteries and it is self-interpreting, so that no mystery remains in it. It does not say one thing and mean another. It has generally only one simple meaning. If a few passages have a double meaning, that is quite clear from the passage itself or from parallel passages. One cannot, as is commonly believed, get a thousand different meanings, from any one passage. The Bible is not a specimin of God's skill as a writer or logician. It is a book written by men whom God used to record His revelation. God used the men by giving them freedom of expression to use their own language and ways of expressing truth. The writers were God's penmen, and not God's pens. All that inspiration guarantees is unity of thought, not the sameness of words and expressions.

The Bible is not a book of systematic discourse on any one subject, but it does give divine information on practically every subject. One must collect together here and there all God's information through the various writers in order to get the whole truth. When this is done, there is perfect harmony, and everything agout the whole subject that man really needs to know is clear.

The Bible is not a book that conforms to tastes, customs, or habits of any one nation or people, or for any one age or period of time. It is a book to which all people in all ages can conform, and yet retain their own peculiar customs and habits that are not sinful and contrary to the will of God.

F.J Dake, God's Plan for Man book.

[Ray]

Hi ray.
I assume you have read read this part of a long previous post of mine, I mean without glossing over Scripture that doesn't line up with what you think about the creation doctrine?

The pre Adamite world, there is so, so much found in Scriptures regarding this doctrin, many dozens of Scriptures support this. If this is false teaching, it amuses me that no one comes up with nothing more than Noah's flood, which occured much later, did not completly destroy the Earth, did not shake mountains, did not turn them upside down, did not block out the off the stars and the sun and moon so that there was no light.
It stands to reason that God had already created the Heavens, they were in existence as well as the Earth only their lights were withheld from shining on the Earth thus causing darkness Gen. 1:2.

There was no darkness during Noah's flood? There were men and animals on the earth before Noah's flood, and Noah and his family and the animals survived the flood and were remained on the Earth after it?

That the Earth ONLY (became) without form and void (Hebrew tohu vabobu, litterally wast and ruin or desolate and empty), as in Gen. 1:2. That there were mountains of Earth that were shaken and turned upside down by an earthquake so severe, which no doubt caused the remains of animals to be deposited in the very depths of the Earth beneath many layers of solid rock, such as are now been found. Noah's flood never buried animals hundreds of meters beneath solid rock.

Many prove the doctrin of a pre-Adamite world.

To try and put this in a nutshell, God created the heavens first, then the Earth, all in the beginning or in the dateless past (Gen. 1:1; Job 38:4-7). He caused the heavens and the Earth to be inhabited and gave Lucifer control of the Earth-kingdom, don't believe me, read, (Coll. 1:15-18; Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Lucifer, now called Satan, and the spirit rebels caused man to fall, and they regained dominion of the earth through Adam's submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). They have been in control ever since and will be in control untill the second coming of Christ, who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium and make a New Heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth all righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5). Why does science show the earth to be many millions of years old and the Bible "(allegedly)" says it is only six thousand years old? So, as with everything missunderstood in Scripture men call what they do not understand a theory. Hence, the gap theory, or even a herecy. But there was a gap and its no theory. Scripture shows there was a creation "in the beginning" and then a re-creation.

If we take the time to carefully read all the Scriptures regarding this doctrin and not just skim over them retaining old knowledge in the mind, and the READ these below, which backs up what is said, and see for yourselves

You see, God spoke, and as soon as the materials were made, God created and formed with His hands the heavens, with all its light and darkness first, then the Earth, all in the beginning, or in the dateless past (Gen. 1:1; Job 38:4-7). God created the heavens and the earth to be inhabited and He gave Lucifer control of the Earth kingdom (Col. 1:15-18; Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14). Lucifer obeyed God and ruled for an unknown time before he rebelled and invaded heaven to try and de-throne (Ezek 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Naturally Lucifer was defeated, and his kingdom on the earth was totally destroyed by a flood and by the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1;2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6), hence the severe geological contortions of the earth's crust, vast deposits of bones in various places world wide, fossiles thousands or millions of years old etc. The earth was turned upside down in this process, ever wondered why the moon is poc marked by countless craters, and yet we never see anything plowing into it these days causing such destruction. What about the other dead planets in our immediate solar system? The flood God caused to cover the earth remained for an unknown period of time, and then God, in six days restored the earth to a habitable state and made Adam and his creation to carry out the original plan of God conserning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer and his spirit rebels caused man to fall and by this regained dominion of the earth through Adams submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). Lucifer has been in control ever since and he will remain in control untill the second coming of Jesus Christ who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium. God will then finally make a New heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5).

This doctrin is too simple for most men to understand, so they reject it.

Now, 2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world THAT THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, PERISHED:
But the heavens and the Earth, WHICH ARE NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is where people become confused and say the world "that then was," was the world before Noah's flood, but this cannot be because:

If the world that THAT THEN WAS" is that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God created The heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW" since the flood of Noah. Noah and his family lived prior to his flood and after it. The world "THAT THEN WAS PERISHED" and everything in it also perished. What change could Noah's flood make to the heavens? None, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. The earth, vegetation, the heavens, all remained the same after Noah's flood.

Peter, in (2 Peter 3:3-7) taught that scoffers were totally ignorant of the flood that destroyed the social system and the earth "that then was" (lucifers flood). These scoffers all knew of Noah's flood and still know today. This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original creation was hidden from them, while they knew about Noah's flood.

What was it that the scoffers were ignorant of unless it was the destruction of the social system before Adam?

This is the doctrin of which men are still ignorant of, which they call "the gap theory." Peter said that the scoffers were willingly ignorant of this truth showing that it is a clear doctrin of Scripture if men would stop being ignorant of it. There are many Scriptures that make this doctrin clear; so "If any man wants to be ignorant, let him be ignorant," as Paul expressed in (1 Cor. 14:38).

Peter said these scoffers of the last days, the days we are in now, since Noah, would be ignorant of the fact that the heavens were of old; that the social system ruled by Lucifer on the old Earth perished by water; that the heavens and the Earth since the six days of restoration are kept in store to be purified again- the next time by fire; that the Lord is not slack concerning His promises of final restoration of the earth to its third perfect state; and that God was longsuffering to all men, not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance.

[You said; Thanks Haz,
For the response. I know it must have taken a while to put down such a detailed account of what you believe
on this subject. Some of what you present I agree with and cannot be refuted with Scripture. But there is
some statements made in your response I would like to comment on when I have a little more time.]

Its not what I personally believe, its what I believe because, "It is written!" Can you explain this? "Peter, in (2 Peter 3:3-7) taught that scoffers were totally ignorant of the flood that destroyed the social system and the earth "that then was" (lucifers flood). These scoffers all knew of Noah's flood and still know today. This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original creation was hidden from them, while they knew about Noah's flood.

Hello Haz,

I copied what is below from one of Leon's Posts that he copied from the Dake Bible.

Made defined
Hebrew `asah (HSN-<H6213>), to make out of already existing material (opposite of bara' (HSN-<H1254>), to create;

Above is Pretty much the same as you have written several times Haz.

What I understand of the made and create definitions according to the Dake Bible and you (Haz) and Leon's
posts is the words

"MAKE or MADE" is to make out of already existing material.
"CREATE or CREATED" is to make something out of Nothing.
Dake even goes as far as to say these are opposites
(Correct me if I'm misunderstanding Rev.Dake and his word definitions as produced above)

NOW I respect Finis Dake as a Man of GOD, I respect his beliefs and his writings and accomplishments.
BUT I do not agree with him on some of his teachings (I guess you already know that) I have nothing
against the man and nothing against those who believe and teach his teachings.

Now if the definitions above are accurate the verse below makes No sense and is False.
Genesis 5:1 King James Version (KJV)
5 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

Clearly the verse above presents GOD "CREATED" man and GOD "MADE" him.
Just this ONE VERSE alone Completely refutes the definition you have come to believe and teach.

In the verse below reveals GOD "Created" man.
Isaiah 45:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

I think we ALL agree that man was produced from the dust of the earth. ("MAKE or MADE" is to make out of already existing material.)

Yet the Isaiah 45 passage above states GOD "Created" man. ("CREATE or CREATED" is to make something out of Nothing.)

What I have presented above proves TO ME that what Dake (and you Brothers) teach is Clearly refuted and
proven false.

Now I may get kicked of the forum for this post, But I will not Lie or agree to what I see as False to be
TRUTH.

You Brothers probably will ignore what I wrote above, maybe pretend it's not there as it's the ONLY way
you can cling to what you have come to believe.

One of the Greatest reasons your Creation Doctrine (To ME) completely fails and is destroyed is what I presented above makes the verse below Present THE TRUTH of SCRIPTURE Just as it is written.

Exodus 20:11King James Version (KJV)
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


Haz, In your post above this one you use the words re-created, re-create that are found NOWHERE in GOD'S WORD.

You mention "glossing over Scripture that doesn't line up with what you think about the creation doctrine?"
NO I don't Haz I consider ALL Scripture to decide where to Stand.

Do you Haz "gloss over Scripture that doesn't line up with what you think about the creation doctrine?"
If you don't you really need to reconsider this "MADE" vs. "CREATE" thing that I wrote a little about above.

Then you mention what science shows, well science actually PROVES very little.
Science teaches that your great, great grand father was a monkey and his was a rock.

Ray,

Your supposition is totally wrong.

It would be nice if you knew a little about Dake... before you go off on these wild thesis of yours that are not founded in reality.

Dake believes that man was created and made.

Fifteen Things God Has Done
1. He commanded men to keep His precepts (Ps. 119:4).
2. He rebuked the proud (Ps. 119:21).
3. He heard prayer (Ps. 119:26).
4. He caused men to hope (Ps. 119:49).
5. He quickened men (Ps. 119:50,93).
6. He dealt well with men (Ps. 119:65,68).
7. He created and made man (Ps. 119:73).
Finis Jennings Dake, Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Bible Sales, Inc., 1997), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "Psalm 119".

Hello Leon,

Well it is Clear that The Scriptures reveal mankind was MADE by GOD and mankind was CREATED by GOD.
(though I don't believe Psalm 119:73 is a good example of such)

I believe the Genesis 5 passage below lends more credence to the Scriptural FACT that mankind was MADE by GOD and mankind was CREATED by GOD.
Genesis 5:1 King James Version (KJV)
5 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

Brother Leon, Brother Haz,
Would not Rev. Dake's admittance that He (GOD) created and made man (Ps. 119:73) Prove his very own
definition as given below WRONG and a Contradiction of his own teaching???

Made defined ( As Dake Teaches)
Hebrew `asah (HSN-<H6213>), to make out of already existing material (opposite of bara' (HSN-<H1254>), to create;

If the definition above is Correct ( I totally disagree with his def.) and the use of "MADE" and "CREATE" in
the Scriptures are as Dake presents these wards to mean, Then The Scriptures are Wrong. Well every of
mankind believes what he wants, But for myself as every man should let the SCRIPTURES be the FINAL
AUTHORITY on what one believes and teaches.

AS Dake Teaches (and you yourselves)
"MAKE or MADE" is to make out of already existing material.
"CREATE or CREATED" is to make something out of Nothing.
Dake even goes as far as to say these are opposites

If what right above is Correct then man was NEVER created. And Scripture Clearly proves that wrong.

Question: WHERE WAS MAN (In Scriptures) EVER CREATED FROM NOTHING ????? I say NOWHERE.
which again proves Dake's Creation Doctrine wrong.

And Scriptures that needs to be made to fit into Dake's teaching on the words "MAKE" and "CREATED" (Dake's Creation Doctrine) Produce a falsehood in those who believe this Doctrine which Does not allow the TRUTH
of The SCRIPTURES to be believed as they were written.

Again a perfect example:
Exodus 20:11King James Version (KJV)
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Dake's Doctrine robs the verse above of THE TRUTH that GOD meant for it to convey. And creates a
Doctrine that cannot stand in THE LIGHT of THE TRUTH OF THE WORD OF GOD.

Leon, I hope what I wrote above does not come across as being to Harsh on Rev. Dake, But I don't know
no other way to make the point (I Believe) that needs to here be made.

[bibleman]

HI Ray,

Above you said: "Leon, I hope what I wrote above does not come across as being to Harsh on Rev. Dake, But I don't know no other way to make the point (I Believe) that needs to here be made."

No, you do not come across harsh at all, just unlearned of Dake's teachings and the Word of God itself. Stick around open your mind and you will learn and grow. But you must open your mind to the Word of God.

God created man: Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

God made man: Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Just as Dake says man was created and made!

Fifteen Things God Has Done
1. He commanded men to keep His precepts (Ps. 119:4).
2. He rebuked the proud (Ps. 119:21).
3. He heard prayer (Ps. 119:26).
4. He caused men to hope (Ps. 119:49).
5. He quickened men (Ps. 119:50,93).
6. He dealt well with men (Ps. 119:65,68).
7. He created and made man (Ps. 119:73).
Finis Jennings Dake, Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Bible Sales, Inc., 1997), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "Psalm 119".

There it is, you can believe or not!

[Ray]

HI Ray,

Above you said: "Leon, I hope what I wrote above does not come across as being to Harsh on Rev. Dake, But I don't know no other way to make the point (I Believe) that needs to here be made."

No, you do not come across harsh at all, just unlearned of Dake's teachings and the Word of God itself. Stick around open your mind and you will learn and grow. But you must open your mind to the Word of God.

God created man: Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

God made man: Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Just as Dake says man was created and made!

Fifteen Things God Has Done
1. He commanded men to keep His precepts (Ps. 119:4).
2. He rebuked the proud (Ps. 119:21).
3. He heard prayer (Ps. 119:26).
4. He caused men to hope (Ps. 119:49).
5. He quickened men (Ps. 119:50,93).
6. He dealt well with men (Ps. 119:65,68).
7. He created and made man (Ps. 119:73).
Finis Jennings Dake, Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Bible Sales, Inc., 1997), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "Psalm 119".

There it is, you can believe or not!

Leon,
I guess I am not being clear in the point I am attempting to make.

According to Dake's definition of the word (Heb. bara) Create.
Means to produce from Nothing.

According to Dake's definition Man could have NEVER been created ( as man was NEVER produced from Nothing)

Dake's definition only allows man to be "MADE" and Never be "CREATED" which is proved completely wrong
according to The Scriptures.

[bibleman]

HI Ray,

Above you said: "Leon, I hope what I wrote above does not come across as being to Harsh on Rev. Dake, But I don't know no other way to make the point (I Believe) that needs to here be made."

No, you do not come across harsh at all, just unlearned of Dake's teachings and the Word of God itself. Stick around open your mind and you will learn and grow. But you must open your mind to the Word of God.

God created man: Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

God made man: Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Just as Dake says man was created and made!

Fifteen Things God Has Done
1. He commanded men to keep His precepts (Ps. 119:4).
2. He rebuked the proud (Ps. 119:21).
3. He heard prayer (Ps. 119:26).
4. He caused men to hope (Ps. 119:49).
5. He quickened men (Ps. 119:50,93).
6. He dealt well with men (Ps. 119:65,68).
7. He created and made man (Ps. 119:73).
Finis Jennings Dake, Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Bible Sales, Inc., 1997), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "Psalm 119".

There it is, you can believe or not!

Leon,
I guess I am not being clear in the point I am attempting to make.

According to Dake's definition of the word (Heb. bara) Create.
Means to produce from Nothing.

According to Dake's definition Man could have NEVER been created ( as man was NEVER produced from Nothing)

Dake's definition only allows man to be "MADE" and Never be "CREATED" which is proved completely wrong
according to The Scriptures.

OK RAY,

What part of planet earth was Adam's soul made from?

[luchnia]

This dead horse carcass is practically beaten to dust now