Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Questions Young Earth Theorists Have Not Been Able to Answer

[Ray]

Questions for OEC Believers:
What do those that believe that the heavens and Earth were created before the 6 days (evening and morning) of creation given in Gen. 1 do with verses such as:

Exodus 20:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

How can one believe that Lucifer or any Angelic Being, or any pre-adamite race exist before the 6 days
described in the verse above and take the Scriptures in Context?

As the Creation account given in Gen 1 describe what is created each day then gives "and the evening and morning were THE FIRST DAY." Then gives the second day ect...

Was there a day before "the first day" ? If this is not believed to be "the first day" how does one decide
what to believe and what not to of that which is Clearly given in the Scriptures?
Gen 1:
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Haz,or any forum member,

Could you Please expound on the Questions above Directly, I know you may have touched on some of this in your earlier presentation. But could you address each question in the scriptural context in which it is given ?
Thanks in advance.

[Ironman]

Questions for OEC Believers:
What do those that believe that the heavens and Earth were created before the 6 days (evening and morning) of creation given in Gen. 1 do with verses such as:

Exodus 20:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

How can one believe that Lucifer or any Angelic Being, or any pre-adamite race exist before the 6 days
described in the verse above and take the Scriptures in Context?

As the Creation account given in Gen 1 describe what is created each day then gives "and the evening and morning were THE FIRST DAY." Then gives the second day ect...

Was there a day before "the first day" ? If this is not believed to be "the first day" how does one decide
what to believe and what not to of that which is Clearly given in the Scriptures?
Gen 1:
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Haz,or any forum member,

Could you Please expound on the Questions above Directly, I know you may have touched on some of this in your earlier presentation. But could you address each question in the scriptural context in which it is given ?
Thanks in advance.

God Himself worked in the re-creation of the Earth from chaos to a second habitable state the same length and number of days that He now commanded Israel to work (Ex. 20:8-11 with Gen. 1;3-31.
God rested the same number and length of days that Israel was told to rest (Ex. 20:8-11 with Gen. 2:2-3).

The Lord MADE (did not create) the heavens and the Earth in six literal 24 hour days (Ex. 20:8-11 with Gen. 1:3:31).

That as God sanctified or hallowed a day of rest for Himself, so Israel was to sanctify (set apart) a day of rest for themselves (Ex. 20:11 with Gen. 2:2-3; Dr. 5:12)

The Sabbath was a mere type of rest in Christ (Mt. 11:28-30; Col. 2:14:17). The type was in force until Christ came as the reality of what is typified. Therefore, all obligation to observe a set day as a shadow of something to come is ended (Gal. 3:19-25; 4:21-31; Heb. 7:11-10:18).

Dake Bible! notes 'L' page 182.

If it took God six days to re-create the Earth to a habitable state in six days, imagine how long it must have taken for God to actually first create the Earth, the innumerable stars, planets, and galaxies, and moe are being found every day!

[Ray]

Haz,

I will attempt to address your pre-adamite response one part at a time.

You wrote:
WHEN WAS "IN THE BEGINNING? Was it Gen. 1:1, or John 1:1-3. ?

****Both Gen1:1 and John 1:1-3 are the Beginning, The Same Time, NO reason in Scripture to believe otherwise. THERE was ONLY ONE BEGINNING, The Beginning is THE BEGINNING. This must be where some
Old Earth Creationist get confused.

You wrote:
God is a creator and has been creating throughout eternity past and He will continue creating into eternity future. The Earth was inhabited long before Adam and was ruled by Lucifer until, "Iniquity was found in him.

**** Yes GOD Through JESUS Created ALL in Six Literal days as given in Exodus 20:11. As for the statement you make above could you Please Present Chapter and verse of Scripture? AS I have never seen them.

You Wrote:
Lucifer was a fallen angel when he was allowed by God to enter Eden to tempt Adam to see if Adam would remain faithful.

**** Again could you please present chapter and verse of the statement of Lucifer being already fallen when
he was allowed by God to enter Eden.

You Wrote:
Lucifer was the ruler of the Earth before Adam and Eve were created. It was the Pre-Adamite world.

****Chapter and verse to the above statement.

[Ironman]

Deleted, posted while you were posting. will start again.

[Ray]

Questions for OEC Believers:
What do those that believe that the heavens and Earth were created before the 6 days (evening and morning) of creation given in Gen. 1 do with verses such as:

Exodus 20:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

How can one believe that Lucifer or any Angelic Being, or any pre-adamite race exist before the 6 days
described in the verse above and take the Scriptures in Context?

As the Creation account given in Gen 1 describe what is created each day then gives "and the evening and morning were THE FIRST DAY." Then gives the second day ect...

Was there a day before "the first day" ? If this is not believed to be "the first day" how does one decide
what to believe and what not to of that which is Clearly given in the Scriptures?
Gen 1:
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Haz,or any forum member,

Could you Please expound on the Questions above Directly, I know you may have touched on some of this in your earlier presentation. But could you address each question in the scriptural context in which it is given ?
Thanks in advance.

God Himself worked in the re-creation of the Earth from chaos to a second habitable state the same length and number of days that He now commanded Israel to work (Ex. 20:8-11 with Gen. 1;3-31.
God rested the same number and length of days that Israel was told to rest (Ex. 20:8-11 with Gen. 2:2-3).

The Lord MADE (did not create) the heavens and the Earth in six literal 24 hour days (Ex. 20:8-11 with Gen. 1:3:31).

That as God sanctified or hallowed a day of rest for Himself, so Israel was to sanctify (set apart) a day of rest for themselves (Ex. 20:11 with Gen. 2:2-3; Dr. 5:12)

The Sabbath was a mere type of rest in Christ (Mt. 11:28-30; Col. 2:14:17). The type was in force until Christ came as the reality of what is typified. Therefore, all obligation to observe a set day as a shadow of something to come is ended (Gal. 3:19-25; 4:21-31; Heb. 7:11-10:18).

Dake Bible! notes 'L' page 182.

If it took God six days to re-create the Earth to a habitable state in six days, imagine how long it must have taken for God to actually first create the Earth, the innumerable stars, planets, and galaxies, and moe are being found every day!

Nowhere in ALL of Scripture that it is given that the Earth was re-created.

There is No way what is given below can mean what anything other than what is given.
Exodus 20:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

AS for the Created vs. Made word usage the verses below Clear up that.
Genesis 2:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

****created and made used interchangeably

Genesis 5:1 King James Version (KJV)
5 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

**** again created and made used interchangeably

Genesis 6:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

**** again created and made used interchangeably

You Wrote:
"If it took God six days to re-create the Earth to a habitable state in six days, imagine how long it must have taken for God to actually first create the Earth, the innumerable stars, planets, and galaxies, and moe are being found every day"

The creation of the "innumerable stars, planets, and galaxies, and more" are all given in Gen 1 in THE FIRST DAY, THE SECOND DAY, THE THIRD DAY, ECT...... SIX DAYS not one second longer. Why has this Clear account of Creation come to be made Something other than what is Given.

[Ironman]

Haz,

I will attempt to address your pre-adamite response one part at a time.
**************************************************************************
My Reply, I do believe you are trying to trick me up. Have you read my previous posts and checked the scriptures provided? if so, you would not be asking the questions your asking.
****************************************************************************

You wrote:
WHEN WAS "IN THE BEGINNING? Was it Gen. 1:1, or John 1:1-3. ?

****Both Gen1:1 and John 1:1-3 are the Beginning, The Same Time, NO reason in Scripture to believe otherwise. THERE was ONLY ONE BEGINNING, The Beginning is THE BEGINNING. This must be where some
Old Earth Creationist get confused.
*********************************************************************
My Haz, reply, IF, Gen. 1:1, "In the beginning," is the very exact same "In the beginning" meaning 6000 years ago, AS John 1:1, "In the beginning," is also 6000 years ago, and as you state, are the same "In the beginning" then according to your understanding of these Scriptures God the Father and the Word, who became Jesus Christ; John 1:14, are not immortal being with no beginning and no end but they had a beginning 6000 years ago?

Gen. 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." [You believe this event happened 6000 years ago?]

AND

John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
v. 2, The same was in the beginning with God. [You also believe this event happened 6000 years ago? So Both God and the Word had a beginning 6000 years ago did they?]
v. 3, All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

DONT STOP HERE KEEP READING,

John 1:14, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

Who's confused now?
*************************************************************
You wrote:
God is a creator and has been creating throughout eternity past and He will continue creating into eternity future. The Earth was inhabited long before Adam and was ruled by Lucifer until, "Iniquity was found in him.

**** Yes GOD Through JESUS Created ALL in Six Literal days as given in Exodus 20:11. As for the statement you make above could you Please Present Chapter and verse of Scripture? AS I have never seen them.
************************************************************

My Haz, reply, No, Ex. 20:11 uses the word MADE, NOT CREATED. The Word, who became Jesus in John 1:14, re-created the earth to make it habitable again. See where God said REPLENISH THE EARTH in Gen 1:28, "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." It must have been plenished at some time before for God to say, "GO AND REPLENISH IT?"
*******************************************************************
You Wrote:
Lucifer was a fallen angel when he was allowed by God to enter Eden to tempt Adam to see if Adam would remain faithful.
******************************************************************************

My Haz, Reply, Lucifer made a pact with the serpent to try and trick Adam and Eve into eating the forbidden fruit. He through the serpent accused God of telling lies when he said, " Gen. 3:4, And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
v. 5, For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." ;

After God clearly told them, Gen. 2:16, "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
v. 17, But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

If Lucifer was not a fallen being he would never have dared to call God a lier and trick Adam and Eve into disobeying Him and upset God's plan for mankind?
***********************************************************************************

**** Again could you please present chapter and verse of the statement of Lucifer being already fallen when
he was allowed by God to enter Eden.

My Haz, Reply, God here is taking about Lucifer in these Scriptures. He was a perfect created angelic arc angel; "Thou hast been in God's Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquityINIQUITY WAS FOUND IN THEE" (Ezek. 28:13-15).
**********************************************************************************

You Wrote:
Lucifer was the ruler of the Earth before Adam and Eve were created. It was the Pre-Adamite world.

****Chapter and verse to the above statement.

********************************************************************************

My Haz, Reply, Given already! Read above.

If you read my previous posts and checked the Scriptures you would have noticed that the Scriptures clearly teach there were two floods on the Earth. The first was the pre-Adamite flood where God completely destroyed the entire earth, it was also made dark, and ALL that lived there, and there was flood number 2, Noahs flood, where vegetation, animals, birds, people, Noah, his wife and his sons and their wives survived and there was also day and night.

This doctrin is too simple for most men to understand, so they reject it.

Now, 2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world THAT THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, PERISHED:
But the heavens and the Earth, WHICH ARE NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is where people become confused and say the world "that then was," was the world before Noah's flood, but this cannot be because:

If the world that THAT THEN WAS" is that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God created The heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW" since the flood of Noah. Noah and his family lived prior to his flood and after it. The world "THAT THEN WAS PERISHED" and everything in it also perished. What change could Noah's flood make to the heavens? None, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. The earth, vegetation, the heavens, all remained the same after Noah's flood.

Peter, in (2 Peter 3:3-7) taught that scoffers were totally ignorant of the flood that destroyed the social system and the earth "that then was" (lucifers flood). These scoffers all knew of Noah's flood and still know today. This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original creation was hidden from them, while they knew about Noah's flood.

HERE'S THE SCRIPTURAL PROOF. Read them for yourself. You wont do it in a few moments, took me ages.

Scriptural proof there were two floods on this earth, Lucifers flood which I will post as . 'L,F.' And Noahs flood which I will post as . 'N.F.'

L.F. Earth made waste (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Earth not made waste (Gen. 8:11-12, 22 ; Heb. 11:7 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. Earth made empty (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23).
N.F. Earth not made empty (Gen. 6:18-22 ; 8:16).

L.F. Earth made totally dark (Gen. 1:2-5 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Not made totally dark (Gen. 8:6-22)

L.F. No light from heaven (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Light from heaven (Gen. 8:6-22).

L.F. No day and night (Gen. 1:2-5).
N.F. Day and night (Gen. 8:1-22).

L.F. All vegetation destroyed Gen. 1:2 ; 2:5-6 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Vegetation not destroyed (Gen. 8:11, 21 ; 9:3, 20).

L.F. No continued abating of the waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Continued abating of the waters from the earth by evaporation (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. Waters taken off the earth in one day (Gen. 1:10).
N.F. Months of waters abating off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. God supernaturally takes waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Natural work of evaporation of the waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. No rebuke or miraculous work in fled away (Gen. 1:6-12 ; Ps. 104:7).
N.F. No rebuke or miraculous work is taking waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. The waters on earth in Gen. 1:2, hasted away when rebuked (Gen. 1:6-2 ; Ps. 104:9).
N.F. The bounds already eternally set for waters in Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. All fish were totally destroyed in flood of Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. No fish were destroyed of created again after Noah's flood (Gen. 1:20-23 ; 6:18-22).

L.F. No Fowls left on the earth after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Fowls were left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:7-17).

L.F. No animals left after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Some of all animals kept alive (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:17 ; 9:2-4, 10-16).

L.F. No man left on earth in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Eight men and women left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:18 ; 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No social system left at all in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. A social system left after Noah's flood (Gen. 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No ark made to save men in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. An ark made to save men and animals alive (Gen. 6:8-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16 ; Heb. 11:7).

L.F. Cause: fall of Lucifer, now Satan (Isa. 14:12-14; Jer. 4:23-26; Ezek. 28:11-17 ; Luke 10:18).
N.F. Cause: wickedness of men (Gen. 6:5-13) ; and fallen angels (Gen. 6:1-4; Jude 6-7 ; 2 Pet. 2:4).

L.F. Result: became necessary to make new life on earth (Gen. 1:3-2 : 25 ; Isa. 45:18 ; Eph. 3:11).
N.F. Results: no new creation made, for all men and animals were not destroyed (Gen. 6:18-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16).

[Ironman]

Questions for OEC Believers:
What do those that believe that the heavens and Earth were created before the 6 days (evening and morning) of creation given in Gen. 1 do with verses such as:

Exodus 20:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

How can one believe that Lucifer or any Angelic Being, or any pre-adamite race exist before the 6 days
described in the verse above and take the Scriptures in Context?

As the Creation account given in Gen 1 describe what is created each day then gives "and the evening and morning were THE FIRST DAY." Then gives the second day ect...

Was there a day before "the first day" ? If this is not believed to be "the first day" how does one decide
what to believe and what not to of that which is Clearly given in the Scriptures?
Gen 1:
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Haz,or any forum member,

Could you Please expound on the Questions above Directly, I know you may have touched on some of this in your earlier presentation. But could you address each question in the scriptural context in which it is given ?
Thanks in advance.

God Himself worked in the re-creation of the Earth from chaos to a second habitable state the same length and number of days that He now commanded Israel to work (Ex. 20:8-11 with Gen. 1;3-31.
God rested the same number and length of days that Israel was told to rest (Ex. 20:8-11 with Gen. 2:2-3).

The Lord MADE (did not create) the heavens and the Earth in six literal 24 hour days (Ex. 20:8-11 with Gen. 1:3:31).

That as God sanctified or hallowed a day of rest for Himself, so Israel was to sanctify (set apart) a day of rest for themselves (Ex. 20:11 with Gen. 2:2-3; Dr. 5:12)

The Sabbath was a mere type of rest in Christ (Mt. 11:28-30; Col. 2:14:17). The type was in force until Christ came as the reality of what is typified. Therefore, all obligation to observe a set day as a shadow of something to come is ended (Gal. 3:19-25; 4:21-31; Heb. 7:11-10:18).

Dake Bible! notes 'L' page 182.

If it took God six days to re-create the Earth to a habitable state in six days, imagine how long it must have taken for God to actually first create the Earth, the innumerable stars, planets, and galaxies, and moe are being found every day!

Nowhere in ALL of Scripture that it is given that the Earth was re-created.

There is No way what is given below can mean what anything other than what is given.
Exodus 20:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

AS for the Created vs. Made word usage the verses below Clear up that.
Genesis 2:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

****created and made used interchangeably

Genesis 5:1 King James Version (KJV)
5 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

**** again created and made used interchangeably

Genesis 6:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

**** again created and made used interchangeably

You Wrote:
"If it took God six days to re-create the Earth to a habitable state in six days, imagine how long it must have taken for God to actually first create the Earth, the innumerable stars, planets, and galaxies, and moe are being found every day"

The creation of the "innumerable stars, planets, and galaxies, and more" are all given in Gen 1 in THE FIRST DAY, THE SECOND DAY, THE THIRD DAY, ECT...... SIX DAYS not one second longer. Why has this Clear account of Creation come to be made Something other than what is Given.

*****************************************************************************************************************

Read this again, checking all the Scriptures.

Naturally Lucifer was defeated, and his kingdom on the earth was totally destroyed by a flood and by the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1;2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6), hence the severe geological contortions of the earth's crust, vast deposits of bones in various places world wide, fossiles thousands or millions of years old etc. The earth was turned upside down in this process, ever wondered why the moon is poc marked by countless craters, and yet we never see anything plowing into it these days causing such destruction. What about the other dead planets in our immediate solar system? The flood God caused to cover the earth remained for an unknown period of time, and then God, in six days restored the earth to a habitable state and made Adam and his creation to carry out the original plan of God conserning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer and his spirit rebels caused man to fall and by this regained dominion of the earth through Adams submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). Lucifer has been in control ever since and he will remain in control untill the second coming of Jesus Christ who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium. God will then finally make a New heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5).

This doctrin is too simple for most men to understand, so they reject it.

Now, 2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world THAT THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, PERISHED:
But the heavens and the Earth, WHICH ARE NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is where people become confused and say the world "that then was," was the world before Noah's flood, but this cannot be because:

If the world that THAT THEN WAS" is that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God created The heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW" since the flood of Noah. Noah and his family lived prior to his flood and after it. The world "THAT THEN WAS PERISHED" and everything in it also perished. What change could Noah's flood make to the heavens? None, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. The earth, vegetation, the heavens, all remained the same after Noah's flood.

Peter, in (2 Peter 3:3-7) taught that scoffers were totally ignorant of the flood that destroyed the social system and the earth "that then was" (lucifers flood). These scoffers all knew of Noah's flood and still know today. This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original creation was hidden from them, while they knew about Noah's flood.

What was it that the scoffers were ignorant of unless it was the destruction of the social system before Adam?

This is the doctrin of which men are still ignorant of!
Peter said that the scoffers were willingly ignorant of this truth showing that it is a clear doctrin of Scripture if men would stop being ignorant of it. There are many Scriptures that make this doctrin clear; so "If any man wants to be ignorant, let him be ignorant," as Paul expressed in (1 Cor. 14:38).

Peter said these scoffers of the last days, the days we are in now, since Noah, would be ignorant of the fact that the heavens were of old; that the social system ruled by Lucifer on the old Earth perished by water; that the heavens and the Earth since the six days of restoration are kept in store to be purified again- the next time by fire; that the Lord is not slack concerning His promises of final restoration of the earth to its third perfect state; and that God was longsuffering to all men, not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance. In Isa. 14:12-14 we have statements which cannot possibly of an earthly King. The passage is universally refering to the fall of Satan. We can quote it and note the facts.

"How art thou fallen from Heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which dist weaken the nations! For thou art hast said in thine heart, I WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN, I WILL EXALT MY THRONE above the stars of God: I WILL sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I WILL ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL BE like the most High," Now note the following facts this passage proves of Satan:

1. That his name is Lucifer.

2. That he was a son of the morning, and therefore, no earthly man.

3. That he fell from Heaven. This could never be spoken of a man. Satan is the only person in all Scripture who is spoken of as falling from Heaven (Luke 10:18).

4. That he was cut down to the ground in his fall.

5. That he weakened the nations on Earth.

6. That he was exalted in his heart.

7. That he invaded Heaven where God rules.

8. That he was a KING, for he had a Throne and SUBJECTS over whom he ruled.

9. That he wanted to exalt his kingdom above the clouds, stars, and into Heaven itself to dethrone God.

10. That he wanted to be worshiped in the congregation of God (Ps. 72:2; 82:1; Isa. 6:1).

11. That he led a rebellion against God but was defeated.

12. That his kingdom was on Earth, or he never could have tried to ascend above the clouds, stars, and into Heaven. When a kingdom is located under the clouds it has to be on the Earth.

13. That the ground, clouds, stars, and Heaven were already created.

14. That it had to be before Adam, for this was not the position of Lucifer when he was in Adam's Eden. Adam had dominion at that time. Lucifer had no kingdom on the Earth at the time of Adam and he has not had one since in the sense of a visible personal rule on Earth. He has only ruled through others since Adam's day; so this must refer to a time before Adam.

15. That he was not in Heaven when he rebelled, else he could not have desired to ascend into Heaven. He was under the stars, or he could not have desired to be exalted above the stars. He was under the clouds, or he could not have desired to ascend above them.

16. That God's throne is located in the north part of the universe (Psalms 75:6-7). Thus, this passage proves the location of Satan's original kingdom and the time of his fall. It was located on Earth, and his fall was before Adam, for he was al;reday a fallen creature when he entered Adam' Eden.

In Coll. 1:15-18 we read of Christ creating thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers in Heaven and on Earth. They were located somewhere in the heavens and on the Earth. Lucifer was given a kingdom here on Earth, as proved by the passages cited above. His own subjects were earthly creatures of various kinds which were destroyed when the flood of Gen. 1:2 came upon the Earth. God created the Earth to be inhabited by earthly creatures (Isa. 45:18). They are called "nations" in the above passages. The demons who are now Satans emissaries could well be the spirits of the pre-Adamites. At any rate they are not part of the creation at the time of Adam. Thus Isaiah teaches the the Earth was inhabited before Adam and was ruled by Lucifer, whos' kingdom was overthrown when he rebelled.

There is so, so much more found in Scripture regarding this doctrin, many dozens of Scriptures support this. If this is false teaching, it amuses me that no one comes up with nothing more than Noah's flood, which occured much later, did not compleatly destroy the Earth, shake mountains, turn them upside down, turned off the stars and the sun so that there was no light. God had already created the Heavens, they were in existence as well as the Earth only their lights were withheld from shining on the Earth thus causing darkness Gen. 1:2. There was no darkness during Noah's flood? There were men and animals on the earth before Noah's flood, and Noah and his family and the animals survived the flood and were on the Eart after it?

That the Earth ONLY was (became) without form and void (Hebrew tohu vabobu, litterally wast and ruin or desolate and empty), as in Gen. 1:2. That there were mountains of Earth that were shaken and turned upside down by an earthquake so severe, which no doubt caused the remains of animals to be deposited in the very depths of the Earth beneath many layers of solid rock, such as are now been found. Noah's flood never buried animals hundreds of meters beneath solid rock.

Many other scriptures apart from those above can be presented to prove the doctrin of a pre-Adamite world.

To try and put this in a nutshell, God created the heavens first, then the Earth, all in the beginning or in the dateless past (Gen. 1:1; Job 38:4-7). He caused the heavens and the Earth to be inhabited and gave Lucifer control of the Earth-kingdom, don't believe me, read, (Coll. 1:15-18; Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Lucifer ruled the earth for God for an unknown period before he rebelled and invaded heaven to try and dethrone God. Not my idea, read (Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14). He was defeated and his kingdom on Earth was destroyed by a flood and the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).

The Earth was turned upside down, a process which caused all the present formations of the Earth. The flood remained on the Earth for an unknown period of time, and then God in six days restored the Earth to a habitable state and made Adam and Eve and his creation to carry out the original plan of God concerning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer, now called Satan, and the spirit rebels caused man to fall, and they regained dominion of the earth through Adam's submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). They have been in control ever since and will be in control untill the second coming of Christ, who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium and make a New Heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth all righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5). Why does science show the earth to be many millions of years old and the Bible "(allegedly)" says it is only six thousand years old? So, as with everything missunderstood in Scripture men call what they do not understand a theory. Hence, the gap theory, or even a herecy. But there was a gap and its no theory. Scripture shows there was a creation "in the beginning" and then a re-creation.

If we take the time to carefully read all the Scriptures regarding this doctrin and not just skim over them retaining old knowledge in the mind, and the READ these below, which backs up what is said, and see for yourselves

You see, God spoke, and as soon as the materials were made, God created and formed with His hands the heavens, with all its light and darkness first, then the Earth, all in the beginning, or in the dateless past (Gen. 1:1; Job 38:4-7). God created the heavens and the earth to be inhabited and He gave Lucifer control of the Earth kingdom (Col. 1:15-18; Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14). Lucifer obeyed God and ruled for an unknown time before he rebelled and invaded heaven to try and de-throne (Ezek 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Naturally Lucifer was defeated, and his kingdom on the earth was totally destroyed by a flood and by the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1;2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6), hence the severe geological contortions of the earth's crust, vast deposits of bones in various places world wide, fossiles thousands or millions of years old etc. The earth was turned upside down in this process, ever wondered why the moon is poc marked by countless craters, and yet we never see anything plowing into it these days causing such destruction. What about the other dead planets in our immediate solar system? The flood God caused to cover the earth remained for an unknown period of time, and then God, in six days restored the earth to a habitable state and made Adam and his creation to carry out the original plan of God conserning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer and his spirit rebels caused man to fall and by this regained dominion of the earth through Adams submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). Lucifer has been in control ever since and he will remain in control untill the second coming of Jesus Christ who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium. God will then finally make a New heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5).

This doctrin is too simple for most men to understand, so they reject it.

Now, 2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world THAT THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, PERISHED:
But the heavens and the Earth, WHICH ARE NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is where people become confused and say the world "that then was," was the world before Noah's flood, but this cannot be because:

If the world that THAT THEN WAS" is that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God created The heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW" since the flood of Noah. Noah and his family lived prior to his flood and after it. The world "THAT THEN WAS PERISHED" and everything in it also perished. What change could Noah's flood make to the heavens? None, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. The earth, vegetation, the heavens, all remained the same after Noah's flood.

Peter, in (2 Peter 3:3-7) taught that scoffers were totally ignorant of the flood that destroyed the social system and the earth "that then was" (lucifers flood). These scoffers all knew of Noah's flood and still know today. This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original creation was hidden from them, while they knew about Noah's flood.

What was it that the scoffers were ignorant of unless it was the destruction of the social system before Adam?

This is the doctrin of which men are still ignorant of, which they call "the gap theory." Peter said that the scoffers were willingly ignorant of this truth showing that it is a clear doctrin of Scripture if men would stop being ignorant of it. There are many Scriptures that make this doctrin clear; so "If any man wants to be ignorant, let him be ignorant," as Paul expressed in (1 Cor. 14:38).

Peter said these scoffers of the last days, the days we are in now, since Noah, would be ignorant of the fact that the heavens were of old; that the social system ruled by Lucifer on the old Earth perished by water; that the heavens and the Earth since the six days of restoration are kept in store to be purified again- the next time by fire; that the Lord is not slack concerning His promises of final restoration of the earth to its third perfect state; and that God was longsuffering to all men, not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance.

"AS for the Created vs. Made word usage the verses below Clear up that.
Genesis 2:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

****created and made used interchangeably

Genesis 5:1 King James Version (KJV)
5 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

**** again created and made used interchangeably

Genesis 6:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

In the above scripture God was so angry He considered the idea of destroying am and all living things as He destroyed the original pre-Adamite creation, but changed His mind.

**** again created and made used interchangeably"

.

In the above scripture God was so angry He considered the idea of destroying manand all living things, (His original creations), as He destroyed the original pre-Adamite creation, but changed His mind. When God did destroy men because of the sins the entered into this second time, animals, birds, He never completely destroyed as He did the pre-Adamite world, because vegetation survived as did Noah, his family and animals and birds and so did day and night, LIGHT.

You have shot yourself in the foot mate!

Created means the original creation such as the pre-Adamite creation. Made means to make something after the original creation. Like God made Adam and Eve from the dust of the ground, and made them in His image and likeness.

Sure God created man, beasts and creeping things and after He created them and mankind sinned, God repented that He mad them in the first place. To create something is to originally make it from nothing. To make something is to make it from already previously created substance. Gen 1:26, And God said, Let us MAKE man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

[branham1965]

HAZ


GREAT POSTS. NO CAKE EATERS COULDNT BEST YOU IN ANY ARENA.
AND THAT INCLUDES THE BC MINES OR THE WORD OF ALMIGHTY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU ARE ROCK SOLID.NOT PRETENDING TO BE A HEBREW GREEK HOTSHOT,NOT CHASING THIS CULTIST THIS MONTH THAT ONE NEXT.THEN ANOTHER AFTER THAT.THEN ANOTHER AFTER THAT.....THEN A DRY CLEANER,THEN A WATER DOG, THEN A HYPER GRACER THEN A OSAS THEN.......101 THINGS AND FADS.
NEVER!!!!!!
NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!YOU ARE A GOD FEARING BIBLE BELIEVING DAKE MAN.YOU SHOULD BE A THE A BLUE VELVET BLUE RIBBON MEMBER TONIGHT.

I APPRECIATE YOUR STRENGTH AND STANCE FOR REAL TRUTH ALL OF THE TIME .ALL OF THE TIME.24/7 366 DAYS A YEAR.YOU NEVER FALTER.YOU WIELD THE SWORD OF TRUTH AND IT NEVER CHANGES.YOU ARE STRONG AND CONSISTENT ALWAYS.AND YOU GREATLY HONOR THE FOUNDER TOO.
GOD BLESS YOU MATE.

ITS FRIGID COLD HERE.BILLABONGS ARE NOT FIT FOR MAN OR BEAST.

IT IS NEAR ZERO HERE WITH A WIND CHILL OF 30 -50 BELOW OR MORE.

NEW ENGLAND IS BEING BLASTED WITH A STORM OF BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS.SAYS AOL.

[Ray]

Haz,
You Wrote:
"My Haz, reply, IF, Gen. 1:1, "In the beginning," is the very exact same "In the beginning" meaning 6000 years ago, AS John 1:1, "In the beginning," is also 6000 years ago, and as you state, are the same "In the beginning" then according to your understanding of these Scriptures God the Father and the Word, who became Jesus Christ; John 1:14, are not immortal being with no beginning and no end but they had a beginning 6000 years ago?"

Gen. 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." [You believe this event happened 6000 years ago?]

AND

John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
v. 2, The same was in the beginning with God. [You also believe this event happened 6000 years ago? So Both God and the Word had a beginning 6000 years ago did they?]
v. 3, All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

DONT STOP HERE KEEP READING,

John 1:14, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

Who's confused now
************************************************************************************************************************************
Yea Haz,
One FACT I agree with you totally about someone is confused.

John 1:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning WAS the Word, and the Word WAS with God, and the Word WAS God.
2 The same WAS in the beginning with God.
3 All things WERE made by him; and without him WAS not any thing made that WAS made.

Haz You Wrote: "then according to your understanding of these Scriptures God the Father and the Word, who became Jesus Christ; John 1:14, are not immortal being with no beginning and no end but they had a beginning 6000 years ago?"

**********Why would you say what you say above? you tell me "DONT STOP HERE KEEP READING,"
Haz have you read and understood John 1:1-3? The word "WAS" is past tense as the word "WERE" is.
Haz "In the beginning WAS the Word," (THE WORD ALREDY EXISTED IN THE BEGINNING)

[Ray]

Haz,
You Wrote:
"My Haz, reply, No, Ex. 20:11 uses the word MADE, NOT CREATED. The Word, who became Jesus in John 1:14, re-created the earth to make it habitable again. See where God said REPLENISH THE EARTH in Gen 1:28, "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." It must have been plenished at some time before for God to say, "GO AND REPLENISH IT?"

***********You Said " No, Ex. 20:11 uses the word MADE, NOT CREATED"*********

Yea Haz I see That, So What?
Genesis 2:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

Question for you Haz : In the verse above is the heavens and earth created or made ?

Genesis 5:1 King James Version (KJV)
5 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

Question: Did GOD create Man or made him in the verse above?

Genesis 6:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Question: the verse above THE LORD said "I will destroy man whom I have created" then says"for it repenteth me that I have made them"

Do you see where I am going here Haz ?

As for the word "REPLENISH"
Look in any Hebrew lexicon and see what "REPLENISH" used here means.
You could find Hebrew lexicons on the internet (ex. Blue Letter Bible)
the Hebrew word used here for "Replenish" is male' and means to fill or to make full.
Some Translations of the Scriptures use the word fill instead of Replenish