Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Bible engagement is not inherently a good thing. WHAT???

[Grandfather]

I'm sorry you have a hard time "making sense" of what God says about his word and how it works . . .

I don't have a hard time making sense of God's word, but I do have a problem making sense about what you said.... You said it works all the time, ALL THE TIME means ALL THE TIME regardless of circumstance or conditions, but you said sometimes it doesn't.

[titus213]

Azde

[titus213]

I'm sorry you have a hard time "making sense" of what God says about his word and how it works . . .

I don't have a hard time making sense of God's word, but I do have a problem making sense about what you said.... You said it works all the time, ALL THE TIME means ALL THE TIME regardless of circumstance or conditions, but you said sometimes it doesn't.

All I am saying is exactly what God has said. His word never returns void. It always accomplishes the purpose for which he sent it. Your problem is that you refuse to believe that the word always does that, even though that is exactly what God says it does. And the reason you refuse to see it is because you are looking at a person's response and outcome rather than the purpose of God.
So for example, when God sent his word through Moses to Pharaoh you would say that it did not work because Pharaoh did not let the people go but instead hardened his heart. Yet God blamed Pharaoh for refusing to humble himself, so obviously God was seeking to humble him. The fact that Pharaoh refused does not change the reality that the word of God was at work offering Pharaoh chance after chance to humble himself before the living God, OR face the consequences.

Here is one of the ways Dake explains this:
"The Holy Spirit deals with rational souls and works upon the intellectual and moral faculties in order to enlighten, convince, and persuade. If man closes his mind to light, his will to reproof, his conscience to righteousness, and his emotions to his best good, then he reverts to total rebellion and must face the harvest of eternal hardness."

The Spirit, working through the word of God, always enlightens, convinces, and persuades. Regardless of the outcome we can see at the moment.

[Grandfather]

I'm sorry you have a hard time "making sense" of what God says about his word and how it works . . .

I don't have a hard time making sense of God's word, but I do have a problem making sense about what you said.... You said it works all the time, ALL THE TIME means ALL THE TIME regardless of circumstance or conditions, but you said sometimes it doesn't.

All I am saying is exactly what God has said. His word never returns void. It always accomplishes the purpose for which he sent it. Your problem is that you refuse to believe that the word always does that, even though that is exactly what God says it does. And the reason you refuse to see it is because you are looking at a person's response and outcome rather than the purpose of God.
So for example, when God sent his word through Moses to Pharaoh you would say that it did not work because Pharaoh did not let the people go but instead hardened his heart. Yet God blamed Pharaoh for refusing to humble himself, so obviously God was seeking to humble him. The fact that Pharaoh refused does not change the reality that the word of God was at work offering Pharaoh chance after chance to humble himself before the living God, OR face the consequences.

Here is one of the ways Dake explains this:
"The Holy Spirit deals with rational souls and works upon the intellectual and moral faculties in order to enlighten, convince, and persuade. If man closes his mind to light, his will to reproof, his conscience to righteousness, and his emotions to his best good, then he reverts to total rebellion and must face the harvest of eternal hardness."

The Spirit, working through the word of God, always enlightens, convinces, and persuades. Regardless of the outcome we can see at the moment.

Whoa, you're back peddling, stop that! You said it always works! Stick to your guns. When you say: "The fact that Pharaoh refused does not change the reality that the word of God was at work offering Pharaoh chance after chance to humble himself before the living God, OR face the consequences." You are repeating what I've said. A person must cooperate with, as opposed to resist, the Word for it the word to work. If the word "WORKS ALL THE TIME" then it must work regardless if a person embraces it, or refuses it, if a person believes it, or deny it, if a person is strong in faith, or wavers.

You can't have it both ways. You can modify your stance, and say the Word has the power to work all the time, if and when people cooperate with it. But if you did that you would be agreeing with my position, and you don't want to admit to that.

[victoryword]

[video][/video]

[titus213]

I'm sorry you have a hard time "making sense" of what God says about his word and how it works . . .

I don't have a hard time making sense of God's word, but I do have a problem making sense about what you said.... You said it works all the time, ALL THE TIME means ALL THE TIME regardless of circumstance or conditions, but you said sometimes it doesn't.

All I am saying is exactly what God has said. His word never returns void. It always accomplishes the purpose for which he sent it. Your problem is that you refuse to believe that the word always does that, even though that is exactly what God says it does. And the reason you refuse to see it is because you are looking at a person's response and outcome rather than the purpose of God.
So for example, when God sent his word through Moses to Pharaoh you would say that it did not work because Pharaoh did not let the people go but instead hardened his heart. Yet God blamed Pharaoh for refusing to humble himself, so obviously God was seeking to humble him. The fact that Pharaoh refused does not change the reality that the word of God was at work offering Pharaoh chance after chance to humble himself before the living God, OR face the consequences.

Here is one of the ways Dake explains this:
"The Holy Spirit deals with rational souls and works upon the intellectual and moral faculties in order to enlighten, convince, and persuade. If man closes his mind to light, his will to reproof, his conscience to righteousness, and his emotions to his best good, then he reverts to total rebellion and must face the harvest of eternal hardness."

The Spirit, working through the word of God, always enlightens, convinces, and persuades. Regardless of the outcome we can see at the moment.

Whoa, you're back peddling, stop that! You said it always works! Stick to your guns. When you say: "The fact that Pharaoh refused does not change the reality that the word of God was at work offering Pharaoh chance after chance to humble himself before the living God, OR face the consequences." You are repeating what I've said. A person must cooperate with, as opposed to resist, the Word for it the word to work. If the word "WORKS ALL THE TIME" then it must work regardless if a person embraces it, or refuses it, if a person believes it, or deny it, if a person is strong in faith, or wavers.

You can't have it both ways. You can modify your stance, and say the Word has the power to work all the time, if and when people cooperate with it. But if you did that you would be agreeing with my position, and you don't want to admit to that.

You still don't get it do you? What I wrote just now is repeating what I have been saying: the word of God works all the time. There is no backpedaling on my part, just an inability to grasp what is being said on your part. It worked with pharaoh. It works because it always accomplishes God's purposes. It works all the time. No conditions. Does that help to clarify for you? It works regardless of the person's response. It works because it is doing God's work no matter whether a person receives and welcomes that work, or rejects and refuses that work. I can't say it any more plainly then I have been saying it.

Read the quotation I gave you from Dake.
Read Isaiah 55. The word does not return void. It does accomplish what God pleases. Not just once in a while. Not just if a person accepts it. But always.

[Grandfather]

I'm sorry you have a hard time "making sense" of what God says about his word and how it works . . .

I don't have a hard time making sense of God's word, but I do have a problem making sense about what you said.... You said it works all the time, ALL THE TIME means ALL THE TIME regardless of circumstance or conditions, but you said sometimes it doesn't.

All I am saying is exactly what God has said. His word never returns void. It always accomplishes the purpose for which he sent it. Your problem is that you refuse to believe that the word always does that, even though that is exactly what God says it does. And the reason you refuse to see it is because you are looking at a person's response and outcome rather than the purpose of God.
So for example, when God sent his word through Moses to Pharaoh you would say that it did not work because Pharaoh did not let the people go but instead hardened his heart. Yet God blamed Pharaoh for refusing to humble himself, so obviously God was seeking to humble him. The fact that Pharaoh refused does not change the reality that the word of God was at work offering Pharaoh chance after chance to humble himself before the living God, OR face the consequences.

Here is one of the ways Dake explains this:
"The Holy Spirit deals with rational souls and works upon the intellectual and moral faculties in order to enlighten, convince, and persuade. If man closes his mind to light, his will to reproof, his conscience to righteousness, and his emotions to his best good, then he reverts to total rebellion and must face the harvest of eternal hardness."

The Spirit, working through the word of God, always enlightens, convinces, and persuades. Regardless of the outcome we can see at the moment.

Whoa, you're back peddling, stop that! You said it always works! Stick to your guns. When you say: "The fact that Pharaoh refused does not change the reality that the word of God was at work offering Pharaoh chance after chance to humble himself before the living God, OR face the consequences." You are repeating what I've said. A person must cooperate with, as opposed to resist, the Word for it the word to work. If the word "WORKS ALL THE TIME" then it must work regardless if a person embraces it, or refuses it, if a person believes it, or deny it, if a person is strong in faith, or wavers.

You can't have it both ways. You can modify your stance, and say the Word has the power to work all the time, if and when people cooperate with it. But if you did that you would be agreeing with my position, and you don't want to admit to that.

You still don't get it do you? What I wrote just now is repeating what I have been saying: the word of God works all the time. There is no backpedaling on my part, just an inability to grasp what is being said on your part. It worked with pharaoh. It works because it always accomplishes God's purposes. It works all the time. No conditions. Does that help to clarify for you? It works regardless of the person's response. It works because it is doing God's work no matter whether a person receives and welcomes that work, or rejects and refuses that work. I can't say it any more plainly then I have been saying it.

Read the quotation I gave you from Dake.
Read Isaiah 55. The word does not return void. It does accomplish what God pleases. Not just once in a while. Not just if a person accepts it. But always.

Hmmm, context, context, context.... Romans 1:16 - the word of God is the power for salvation.... according to Titus the word works all the time. Question, if the Word works all the time, then why isn't everyone saved everytime the Word is preached?

Please quit making exceptions.. you quote Dake... "if a man closes his mind..." how can a man close his mind if the Word always works? Apparently it doesn't work on a closed mind.

[Grandfather]

Just to be clear, there is a difference between having the power to always work and working all the time, are two different things. God's Word always has the power to accomplish whatever God sent it forth to do. However, as Titus has point out "It brings God's grace to a person. But it is not irresistible grace." thus by his own admission, if it can be resisted, it can be prevented from accomplishing it's purpose.

Trying to explain that someone how resists His grace is still accomplishing the purpose of the Word is simply denying the truth. For God's word to work, it must meet a willing vessel that allows it to have its way.

[titus213]

Just to be clear, there is a difference between having the power to always work and working all the time, are two different things. God's Word always has the power to accomplish whatever God sent it forth to do. However, as Titus has point out "It brings God's grace to a person. But it is not irresistible grace." thus by his own admission, if it can be resisted, it can be prevented from accomplishing it's purpose.

Trying to explain that someone how resists His grace is still accomplishing the purpose of the Word is simply denying the truth. For God's word to work, it must meet a willing vessel that allows it to have its way.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. It's purpose is never to make someone accept it. Read the quote from Dake again. Even when resisted, God's purpose has been accomplished. This again points up your fundamental error: confusing purpose and result. You have no answer for Isaiah 55. God's word never returns void. Never means never. The word of God offers grace, and enables a person to believe and receive it. Once that is done its mission has been accomplished. In your way of thinking it is only working if a person responds positively. in other words, most of the time it fails. It returns void. Totally contrary to what God says.

[Grandfather]

Just to be clear, there is a difference between having the power to always work and working all the time, are two different things. God's Word always has the power to accomplish whatever God sent it forth to do. However, as Titus has point out "It brings God's grace to a person. But it is not irresistible grace." thus by his own admission, if it can be resisted, it can be prevented from accomplishing it's purpose.

Trying to explain that someone how resists His grace is still accomplishing the purpose of the Word is simply denying the truth. For God's word to work, it must meet a willing vessel that allows it to have its way.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. It's purpose is never to make someone accept it. Read the quote from Dake again. Even when resisted, God's purpose has been accomplished. This again points up your fundamental error: confusing purpose and result. You have no answer for Isaiah 55. God's word never returns void. Never means never. The word of God offers grace, and enables a person to believe and receive it. Once that is done its mission has been accomplished. In your way of thinking it is only working if a person responds positively. in other words, most of the time it fails. It returns void. Totally contrary to what God says.

So, everyone gets saved... God is not willing that any should perish -- God's word never returns void and always accomplishes its purpose... so everyone gets saved. Yep...