Dake Bible Discussion BoardBible engagement is not inherently a good thing. WHAT???

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bibleman
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Bible engagement is not inherently a good thing. WHAT???

Post by bibleman »

Bible Reading Destroys the Church (Part 1 of 2), by Paul Penley

Would Jesus promote personal Bible reading? You probably never thought to ask yourself that question.

Protestant Christians assume getting a Bible into everyone’s hand is a good thing. Christian donors pump hundreds of millions into Bible translation and distribution every year. With that money, Biblica, Wycliffe and The Seed Company crank out translations in new languages. Scripture Union promotes Bible reading plans. Faith Comes By Hearing and

YouVersion build out robust apps with audio Bibles. GoTandem even texts daily Bible verses selected for your season in life.

I wonder: Is all this cash and energy well spent? History says “no.”

How the Bible Broke Jesus’ Dream

Jesus had a dream. He envisioned a community of followers who embraced his way and each other. He prayed, “may they be one” (John 17:21). 34,000 church denominations later, his prayer goes unanswered.

Why? What fueled one man after another to split up the church? What made each group think they had the corner on truth and all others had erred? The answer is simple: The Bible.

Image

The history of church division runs parallel to the proliferation of Bible translation. When leaders can individually interpret what the Bible really says, unity doesn’t stand a chance. The graph of church denominations and Bible translations (below) illustrates this dynamic. More Bibles, more languages, and more literacy equal more denominations.
Protestant Reformation: Hey, Everybody Do Your Own Thing, It’s Biblical!

For the first 1500 years of the church, major church denominations didn’t surpass single digits. The split between the Catholic Church (in the Western Roman Empire) and the Orthodox Church (in the East) was dubbed the “Great Schism” of 1054 AD. Why? Because major church splits were so rare. That all changed after the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century.

The Protestants hastened Bible translations into German, French, Spanish, English, etc. More Bibles in everyone’s home meant more individuals could decide what was biblical. So they started new denominations. The refrain Sola Scriptura unwittingly excused any man’s opinions about the Bible from the checks and balances of trusted interpretive traditions and a community of gifted Christian leaders. Me, Jesus and the Bible devalued elders and community.

The Bible + my preferred meaning = 34,000 church divisions.

How have we let that happen for 500 years?

Martin Luther’s Legacy: Individualistic Bible Interpretation

Martin Luther is the Protestant superhero. He stuck it to “the man”—the big man in Rome.

On October 31, 1517 he literally stuck his complaints about the Pope and priests on the Wittenberg church door. He called them out for selling salvation. He took away the church’s power to issue forgiveness via “pardon letters” and gave it back to God. And he didn’t stop there.

Luther wrote and taught boldly for the next 3 years. In the summer of 1519 he declared publicly, “The Bible does not give the Pope the exclusive right to interpret scripture.” Anybody can do it.

That claim did not go unnoticed. He was excommunicated from the church in 1520. In 1521, he was called before German authorities at the now famous “Diet of Worms” to face the consequences.

At the Diet of Worms, representatives of the Holy Roman Empire gave Luther one last chance to change his mind.Johann Eck, assistant to the Archbishop of Trier, laid out Luther’s controversial writings on a table. He asked Luther 2 simple questions: Are you the author and do you stand by their contents? Luther was prepared for the first question but not the second. He took credit for the writings, but he asked for a night to prepare an answer to the second question.

The next day Luther came prepared with his reply. His words would become legendary in Protestant circles. His words would embody the individualistic and existential route to determining truth that Protestants have promoted ever since. He said,

“I am bound by the Scriptures I have quoted and my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and will not recant anything, since it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience.”

Martin Luther was so proud of his cleverly crafted response that he saluted Johann Eck like a knight winning a bout. Eck was unimpressed. Luther’s self-proclaimed wit and wisdom would be foiled by Eck’s response.

“Martin, there is not one heresy which has torn apart the bosom of the church, which has not derived its origin from some interpretation of Scripture. The Bible itself is the * whence each innovator has drawn his deceptive arguments.”

Eck understood the devastating consequences of Luther’s paradigm. Although Luther was right to challenge the supreme authority of the Pope, he swung the Pendulum back too far. The authority to determine the meaning of scripture went from one man to every man. Now “I” and the “Scriptures” were in charge. If you deeply feel the Bible means something, then follow your conscience. That’s Luther’s paradigm, intentionally or unintentionally. The Word of God and the conscience of individual men became self-contained authorities.

The irony of Luther’s rejection of papal decrees and church councils escaped him. He thought he had attributed sole authority to Scripture, yet the Bible itself was formed and finalized by church councils (check out The Fourth Council of Carthage in 419 AD). The very books to which he bound himself rested on decisions of the early Catholic Church.
Later in life Luther’s extreme confidence in his opinions over and against those councils and the Scriptures they selected would become clear. He denigrated the value of Matthew, Mark and Luke and recommended the removal of James, Revelation, and other Bible books that did not suit him. His inner persuasion became the authority for who God is and what we should all believe.

Luther’s unintended legacy has been Bible readers turning their opinions into new versions of the faith. The Bible + my preferred meaning = 34,000 church divisions.

Should We Stop Promoting Personal Bible Reading?

Humanity is constantly threatened by the chaos recorded in Judges: “Everyone did what they felt was right” (Judges 21:25). A world full of independent and untrained Bible interpreters can biblically justify any personal opinion. A Bible in every language can lead just as much to the chaos of “create your own religion” as it does to the truth. Interpreting the Bible on your own does not only demonstrate trust in the Bible’s authority; it betrays radical trust in one’s self. We must interpret and act on the Bible’s message with care.

Should we stop promoting personal Bible reading because it has dashed Jesus’ dream of unity? Let me qualify my answer. If we don’t promote anything else to quell the confusion of “biblical” truths, the answer is yes. Bible engagement is not inherently a good thing.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jesuscreed ... ul-penley/
Can you believe this! The Devil sure has confused some people!


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

Grandfather
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Re: Bible engagement is not inherently a good thing. WHAT???

Post by Grandfather »

What is confusing about his statement. He did not say "Bible engagement is not inherently a good thing"

His whole statement was: "If we don’t promote anything else to quell the confusion of “biblical” truths, the answer is yes. Bible engagement is not inherently a good thing."

And, for some reason you omitted the last paragraph/sentence of the blog:

"So what must we do to use the Bible correctly? My next post on Reenacting the Way’s blog will provide the first 4 steps to protect the church from unchecked individualistic Bible interpretation."

And that is a position I've seen supported on this forum several times in several different ways. So, what is your issue with what was written?



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Ironman
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Re: Bible engagement is not inherently a good thing. WHAT???

Post by Ironman »

"Would Jesus promote personal Bible reading?"
.

He sure would and He did or He would not have said this!

John 5:39, "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Its impossible to search the Scriptures without reading the Bible?
"Bible Reading Destroys the Church (Part 1 of 2), by Paul Penley."
.

It sure does, it destroys "SATANS CHURCH."


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

titus213
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Re: Bible engagement is not inherently a good thing. WHAT???

Post by titus213 »

"Protestant Christians assume getting a Bible into everyone’s hand is a good thing."

At one time so did Catholic Christians, which is why Jerome translated the Bible into Latin… The common language of his day.



User avatar
Ironman
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Re: Bible engagement is not inherently a good thing. WHAT???

Post by Ironman »

Keep an eye out for religious people like
Image
Paul Penley at work.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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branham1965
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
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Re: Bible engagement is not inherently a good thing. WHAT???

Post by branham1965 »

WHY
SOME HAVE AFFIRMED ITS THE EASIEST BOOK IN THE WORLD TO UNDERSTAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!IT DOES NOT NEED TO BE INTERPRETED AT ALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THERE ARE ONLY 33,000 DENOMINATIONS NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


CHECK AND SEE
IF REVEREND ANGLEY FEELS THAT WAY,PASTOR BIBLE . HE DOES NOT.







bibleman wrote:
Bible Reading Destroys the Church (Part 1 of 2), by Paul Penley

Would Jesus promote personal Bible reading? You probably never thought to ask yourself that question.

Protestant Christians assume getting a Bible into everyone’s hand is a good thing. Christian donors pump hundreds of millions into Bible translation and distribution every year. With that money, Biblica, Wycliffe and The Seed Company crank out translations in new languages. Scripture Union promotes Bible reading plans. Faith Comes By Hearing and

YouVersion build out robust apps with audio Bibles. GoTandem even texts daily Bible verses selected for your season in life.

I wonder: Is all this cash and energy well spent? History says “no.”

How the Bible Broke Jesus’ Dream

Jesus had a dream. He envisioned a community of followers who embraced his way and each other. He prayed, “may they be one” (John 17:21). 34,000 church denominations later, his prayer goes unanswered.

Why? What fueled one man after another to split up the church? What made each group think they had the corner on truth and all others had erred? The answer is simple: The Bible.

Image

The history of church division runs parallel to the proliferation of Bible translation. When leaders can individually interpret what the Bible really says, unity doesn’t stand a chance. The graph of church denominations and Bible translations (below) illustrates this dynamic. More Bibles, more languages, and more literacy equal more denominations.
Protestant Reformation: Hey, Everybody Do Your Own Thing, It’s Biblical!

For the first 1500 years of the church, major church denominations didn’t surpass single digits. The split between the Catholic Church (in the Western Roman Empire) and the Orthodox Church (in the East) was dubbed the “Great Schism” of 1054 AD. Why? Because major church splits were so rare. That all changed after the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century.

The Protestants hastened Bible translations into German, French, Spanish, English, etc. More Bibles in everyone’s home meant more individuals could decide what was biblical. So they started new denominations. The refrain Sola Scriptura unwittingly excused any man’s opinions about the Bible from the checks and balances of trusted interpretive traditions and a community of gifted Christian leaders. Me, Jesus and the Bible devalued elders and community.

The Bible + my preferred meaning = 34,000 church divisions.

How have we let that happen for 500 years?

Martin Luther’s Legacy: Individualistic Bible Interpretation

Martin Luther is the Protestant superhero. He stuck it to “the man”—the big man in Rome.

On October 31, 1517 he literally stuck his complaints about the Pope and priests on the Wittenberg church door. He called them out for selling salvation. He took away the church’s power to issue forgiveness via “pardon letters” and gave it back to God. And he didn’t stop there.

Luther wrote and taught boldly for the next 3 years. In the summer of 1519 he declared publicly, “The Bible does not give the Pope the exclusive right to interpret scripture.” Anybody can do it.

That claim did not go unnoticed. He was excommunicated from the church in 1520. In 1521, he was called before German authorities at the now famous “Diet of Worms” to face the consequences.

At the Diet of Worms, representatives of the Holy Roman Empire gave Luther one last chance to change his mind.Johann Eck, assistant to the Archbishop of Trier, laid out Luther’s controversial writings on a table. He asked Luther 2 simple questions: Are you the author and do you stand by their contents? Luther was prepared for the first question but not the second. He took credit for the writings, but he asked for a night to prepare an answer to the second question.

The next day Luther came prepared with his reply. His words would become legendary in Protestant circles. His words would embody the individualistic and existential route to determining truth that Protestants have promoted ever since. He said,

“I am bound by the Scriptures I have quoted and my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and will not recant anything, since it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience.”

Martin Luther was so proud of his cleverly crafted response that he saluted Johann Eck like a knight winning a bout. Eck was unimpressed. Luther’s self-proclaimed wit and wisdom would be foiled by Eck’s response.

“Martin, there is not one heresy which has torn apart the bosom of the church, which has not derived its origin from some interpretation of Scripture. The Bible itself is the * whence each innovator has drawn his deceptive arguments.”

Eck understood the devastating consequences of Luther’s paradigm. Although Luther was right to challenge the supreme authority of the Pope, he swung the Pendulum back too far. The authority to determine the meaning of scripture went from one man to every man. Now “I” and the “Scriptures” were in charge. If you deeply feel the Bible means something, then follow your conscience. That’s Luther’s paradigm, intentionally or unintentionally. The Word of God and the conscience of individual men became self-contained authorities.

The irony of Luther’s rejection of papal decrees and church councils escaped him. He thought he had attributed sole authority to Scripture, yet the Bible itself was formed and finalized by church councils (check out The Fourth Council of Carthage in 419 AD). The very books to which he bound himself rested on decisions of the early Catholic Church.
Later in life Luther’s extreme confidence in his opinions over and against those councils and the Scriptures they selected would become clear. He denigrated the value of Matthew, Mark and Luke and recommended the removal of James, Revelation, and other Bible books that did not suit him. His inner persuasion became the authority for who God is and what we should all believe.

Luther’s unintended legacy has been Bible readers turning their opinions into new versions of the faith. The Bible + my preferred meaning = 34,000 church divisions.

Should We Stop Promoting Personal Bible Reading?

Humanity is constantly threatened by the chaos recorded in Judges: “Everyone did what they felt was right” (Judges 21:25). A world full of independent and untrained Bible interpreters can biblically justify any personal opinion. A Bible in every language can lead just as much to the chaos of “create your own religion” as it does to the truth. Interpreting the Bible on your own does not only demonstrate trust in the Bible’s authority; it betrays radical trust in one’s self. We must interpret and act on the Bible’s message with care.

Should we stop promoting personal Bible reading because it has dashed Jesus’ dream of unity? Let me qualify my answer. If we don’t promote anything else to quell the confusion of “biblical” truths, the answer is yes. Bible engagement is not inherently a good thing.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jesuscreed ... ul-penley/
Can you believe this! The Devil sure has confused some people!
Last edited by branham1965 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.



User avatar
branham1965
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 2428
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:18 am

Re: Bible engagement is not inherently a good thing. WHAT???

Post by branham1965 »

i AGREE WITH YOU GRAMPS.

Grandfather wrote:What is confusing about his statement. He did not say "Bible engagement is not inherently a good thing"

His whole statement was: "If we don’t promote anything else to quell the confusion of “biblical” truths, the answer is yes. Bible engagement is not inherently a good thing."

And, for some reason you omitted the last paragraph/sentence of the blog:

"So what must we do to use the Bible correctly? My next post on Reenacting the Way’s blog will provide the first 4 steps to protect the church from unchecked individualistic Bible interpretation."

And that is a position I've seen supported on this forum several times in several different ways. So, what is your issue with what was written?



User avatar
bibleman
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Posts: 1825
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 1998 5:23 pm
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Re: Bible engagement is not inherently a good thing. WHAT???

Post by bibleman »

branham1965 wrote:WHY
SOME HAVE AFFIRMED ITS THE EASIEST BOOK IN THE WORLD TO UNDERSTAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!IT DOES NOT NEED TO BE INTERPRETED AT ALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THERE ARE ONLY 33,000 DENOMINATIONS NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


CHECK AND SEE
IF REVEREND ANGLEY FEELS THAT WAY,PASTOR BIBLE . HE DOES NOT.







bibleman wrote:
Bible Reading Destroys the Church (Part 1 of 2), by Paul Penley

Would Jesus promote personal Bible reading? You probably never thought to ask yourself that question.

Protestant Christians assume getting a Bible into everyone’s hand is a good thing. Christian donors pump hundreds of millions into Bible translation and distribution every year. With that money, Biblica, Wycliffe and The Seed Company crank out translations in new languages. Scripture Union promotes Bible reading plans. Faith Comes By Hearing and

YouVersion build out robust apps with audio Bibles. GoTandem even texts daily Bible verses selected for your season in life.

I wonder: Is all this cash and energy well spent? History says “no.”

How the Bible Broke Jesus’ Dream

Jesus had a dream. He envisioned a community of followers who embraced his way and each other. He prayed, “may they be one” (John 17:21). 34,000 church denominations later, his prayer goes unanswered.

Why? What fueled one man after another to split up the church? What made each group think they had the corner on truth and all others had erred? The answer is simple: The Bible.

Image

The history of church division runs parallel to the proliferation of Bible translation. When leaders can individually interpret what the Bible really says, unity doesn’t stand a chance. The graph of church denominations and Bible translations (below) illustrates this dynamic. More Bibles, more languages, and more literacy equal more denominations.
Protestant Reformation: Hey, Everybody Do Your Own Thing, It’s Biblical!

For the first 1500 years of the church, major church denominations didn’t surpass single digits. The split between the Catholic Church (in the Western Roman Empire) and the Orthodox Church (in the East) was dubbed the “Great Schism” of 1054 AD. Why? Because major church splits were so rare. That all changed after the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century.

The Protestants hastened Bible translations into German, French, Spanish, English, etc. More Bibles in everyone’s home meant more individuals could decide what was biblical. So they started new denominations. The refrain Sola Scriptura unwittingly excused any man’s opinions about the Bible from the checks and balances of trusted interpretive traditions and a community of gifted Christian leaders. Me, Jesus and the Bible devalued elders and community.

The Bible + my preferred meaning = 34,000 church divisions.

How have we let that happen for 500 years?

Martin Luther’s Legacy: Individualistic Bible Interpretation

Martin Luther is the Protestant superhero. He stuck it to “the man”—the big man in Rome.

On October 31, 1517 he literally stuck his complaints about the Pope and priests on the Wittenberg church door. He called them out for selling salvation. He took away the church’s power to issue forgiveness via “pardon letters” and gave it back to God. And he didn’t stop there.

Luther wrote and taught boldly for the next 3 years. In the summer of 1519 he declared publicly, “The Bible does not give the Pope the exclusive right to interpret scripture.” Anybody can do it.

That claim did not go unnoticed. He was excommunicated from the church in 1520. In 1521, he was called before German authorities at the now famous “Diet of Worms” to face the consequences.

At the Diet of Worms, representatives of the Holy Roman Empire gave Luther one last chance to change his mind.Johann Eck, assistant to the Archbishop of Trier, laid out Luther’s controversial writings on a table. He asked Luther 2 simple questions: Are you the author and do you stand by their contents? Luther was prepared for the first question but not the second. He took credit for the writings, but he asked for a night to prepare an answer to the second question.

The next day Luther came prepared with his reply. His words would become legendary in Protestant circles. His words would embody the individualistic and existential route to determining truth that Protestants have promoted ever since. He said,

“I am bound by the Scriptures I have quoted and my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and will not recant anything, since it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience.”

Martin Luther was so proud of his cleverly crafted response that he saluted Johann Eck like a knight winning a bout. Eck was unimpressed. Luther’s self-proclaimed wit and wisdom would be foiled by Eck’s response.

“Martin, there is not one heresy which has torn apart the bosom of the church, which has not derived its origin from some interpretation of Scripture. The Bible itself is the * whence each innovator has drawn his deceptive arguments.”

Eck understood the devastating consequences of Luther’s paradigm. Although Luther was right to challenge the supreme authority of the Pope, he swung the Pendulum back too far. The authority to determine the meaning of scripture went from one man to every man. Now “I” and the “Scriptures” were in charge. If you deeply feel the Bible means something, then follow your conscience. That’s Luther’s paradigm, intentionally or unintentionally. The Word of God and the conscience of individual men became self-contained authorities.

The irony of Luther’s rejection of papal decrees and church councils escaped him. He thought he had attributed sole authority to Scripture, yet the Bible itself was formed and finalized by church councils (check out The Fourth Council of Carthage in 419 AD). The very books to which he bound himself rested on decisions of the early Catholic Church.
Later in life Luther’s extreme confidence in his opinions over and against those councils and the Scriptures they selected would become clear. He denigrated the value of Matthew, Mark and Luke and recommended the removal of James, Revelation, and other Bible books that did not suit him. His inner persuasion became the authority for who God is and what we should all believe.

Luther’s unintended legacy has been Bible readers turning their opinions into new versions of the faith. The Bible + my preferred meaning = 34,000 church divisions.

Should We Stop Promoting Personal Bible Reading?

Humanity is constantly threatened by the chaos recorded in Judges: “Everyone did what they felt was right” (Judges 21:25). A world full of independent and untrained Bible interpreters can biblically justify any personal opinion. A Bible in every language can lead just as much to the chaos of “create your own religion” as it does to the truth. Interpreting the Bible on your own does not only demonstrate trust in the Bible’s authority; it betrays radical trust in one’s self. We must interpret and act on the Bible’s message with care.

Should we stop promoting personal Bible reading because it has dashed Jesus’ dream of unity? Let me qualify my answer. If we don’t promote anything else to quell the confusion of “biblical” truths, the answer is yes. Bible engagement is not inherently a good thing.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jesuscreed ... ul-penley/
Can you believe this! The Devil sure has confused some people!
Billy,

I don't think I have ever heard Ernest Angley say to NOT read the Bible!

Just the opposite. Pray, fast and live in the WORD!


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

User avatar
macca
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Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:37 am
Location: australia

Re: Bible engagement is not inherently a good thing. WHAT???

Post by macca »

What a load of satanic spew :-|
No word of God in you, you will not stay saved.
Idiots are taking over, don't worry about the Antichrist for the ratbags in the church are more deadly to christians. :crazyeyes:


macca



tomas555
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Re: Bible engagement is not inherently a good thing. WHAT???

Post by tomas555 »

What a beautiful list to make us sure the Bible is to be treated every day, with reverence etc.

http://deeperchristian.com/29ways-interact-bible/


Tomas

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