Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Last minute salvation is possible.

[Grandfather]

The norm is once you die, that is usually it. I have never seen someone raised from the dead in a funeral home.

That is not to say these things don't happen because the Bible says all things are possible with God.

Not only are all things possible, but there are several accounts in scripture of people being raised from the dead both in the Old and New Testaments, those have to be accounted for.

But it isn't valid to "account for" them by guesswork and imagination. It's always a dangerous approach to try to make up biblical facts when the Bible itself is silent.

I agree... the Bible however is not silent on the fact they came back from the dead, that they were given another chance at life. A chance to live for God as well as a chance to turn away from him. If one arrives at any other conclusion they are indeed taking a dangerous approach, making up facts. The Bible is clear... they were dead, they are now alive, they are given another chance. Anything more is speculation, but those are the Biblical truths.

[titus213]

The norm is once you die, that is usually it. I have never seen someone raised from the dead in a funeral home.

That is not to say these things don't happen because the Bible says all things are possible with God.

Not only are all things possible, but there are several accounts in scripture of people being raised from the dead both in the Old and New Testaments, those have to be accounted for.

But it isn't valid to "account for" them by guesswork and imagination. It's always a dangerous approach to try to make up biblical facts when the Bible itself is silent.

I agree... the Bible however is not silent on the fact they came back from the dead, that they were given another chance at life. A chance to live for God as well as a chance to turn away from him. If one arrives at any other conclusion they are indeed taking a dangerous approach, making up facts. The Bible is clear... they were dead, they are now alive, they are given another chance. Anything more is speculation, but those are the Biblical truths.

Oh, but that is not the second chance you have been thinking of now, is it? I quote from your earlirer post: "My response to this was to question the time between the spirit leaving the body and judgment and if it was possible to be saved in this period of time."
You are projecting the possibility of a second chance following death while in some sort of imaginary state. So let us not begin to mix apples and oranges by suddenly shifting the point you are wanting to make to a second chance while still alive.

[DeafManHealing]

The answer is here ...

Will there be a second chance for salvation after death?

http://www.gotquestions.org/second-chan ... ation.html

[titus213]

While you ask me not to make an argument from silence I ask that you don't make them either. Yes scripture says "it is appointed for a man once to die" but what is it silent on? It is silent on when that judgment occurs after the event of death. You imply immediately... but it doesn't say that. It says AFTER, but it doesn't say how long AFTER.

The natural understanding of "after THIS" is "once THIS has taken place". It is foolish to say there is a "silence" as to how long after death the judgement occurs.

Besides, we have other scriptures which plainly show that judgement takes place at the time of death. Jesus clarified it once and for all when he told of the after-life experiences of the rich man and Lazarus. In addition, there are the many passages that explain how a person's eternal destiny is determined by their actions in their lifetime (such as Matt.7:21–23;13:36–43; John 5:28–29 and others) and not by anything which transpires after their life on earth ends.

THE WORD OF GOD KNOWS NOTHING OF A SECOND CHANCE FOR SALVATION AFTER DEATH.

[Grandfather]

Oh, but that is not the second chance you have been thinking of now, is it? I quote from your earlirer post: "My response to this was to question the time between the spirit leaving the body and judgment and if it was possible to be saved in this period of time."
You are projecting the possibility of a second chance following death while in some sort of imaginary state. So let us not begin to mix apples and oranges by suddenly shifting the point you are wanting to make to a second chance while still alive.

Not so, you've been reading words I have not been speaking. Perhaps you are reading what you want me to be saying. I simply asked the question -- read it again. "...was to question.... and IF it was possible" I have not projected anything, I simply asked. The reply I received was that there were no second chances, which as you have acknowledge is not true, people were indeed raised from the dead and given another chance. And I believe we both will agree - there is no promise of a second chance.

[Grandfather]

While you ask me not to make an argument from silence I ask that you don't make them either. Yes scripture says "it is appointed for a man once to die" but what is it silent on? It is silent on when that judgment occurs after the event of death. You imply immediately... but it doesn't say that. It says AFTER, but it doesn't say how long AFTER.

The natural understanding of "after THIS" is "once THIS has taken place". It is foolish to say there is a "silence" as to how long after death the judgement occurs.

Besides, we have other scriptures which plainly show that judgement takes place at the time of death. Jesus clarified it once and for all when he told of the after-life experiences of the rich man and Lazarus. In addition, there are the many passages that explain how a person's eternal destiny is determined by their actions in their lifetime (such as Matt.7:21–23;13:36–43; John 5:28–29 and others) and not by anything which transpires after their life on earth ends.

THE WORD OF GOD KNOWS NOTHING OF A SECOND CHANCE FOR SALVATION AFTER DEATH.

Whose "natural understanding"? And the Word of God does show a second chance - in the lives of all that were raised from the dead. Your argument is not with me, but with scripture. You need to learn to reconcile those events in the scripture and by the scripture. It appears you want to accept one, but dismiss the other.

[DeafManHealing]

The only reason I posted this is because it says ...

While the idea of a second chance for salvation is appealing, the Bible is clear that death is the end of all chances. Hebrews 9:27 tells us that we die, and then face judgment. So, as long as a person is alive, he has a second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. chance to accept Christ and be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10; Acts 16:31). Once a person dies, there are no more chances.

This is usually the norm. Once somebody dies, that is it.

I realize there are another biblical verses that deal with the topic. This is where the cross reference notes in the Dake Bible really helps.

[titus213]

While you ask me not to make an argument from silence I ask that you don't make them either. Yes scripture says "it is appointed for a man once to die" but what is it silent on? It is silent on when that judgment occurs after the event of death. You imply immediately... but it doesn't say that. It says AFTER, but it doesn't say how long AFTER.

The natural understanding of "after THIS" is "once THIS has taken place". It is foolish to say there is a "silence" as to how long after death the judgement occurs.

Besides, we have other scriptures which plainly show that judgement takes place at the time of death. Jesus clarified it once and for all when he told of the after-life experiences of the rich man and Lazarus. In addition, there are the many passages that explain how a person's eternal destiny is determined by their actions in their lifetime (such as Matt.7:21–23;13:36–43; John 5:28–29 and others) and not by anything which transpires after their life on earth ends.

THE WORD OF GOD KNOWS NOTHING OF A SECOND CHANCE FOR SALVATION AFTER DEATH.

Whose "natural understanding"? And the Word of God does show a second chance - in the lives of all that were raised from the dead. Your argument is not with me, but with scripture. You need to learn to reconcile those events in the scripture and by the scripture. It appears you want to accept one, but dismiss the other.

Ummm . . . pretty much anyone who can read. After this, then that. The natural inference is that one follows the other directly, unless a lapse of time is mentioned, which it is not. And as I have reminded you, this is confirmed by other passages showing that (a) judgement takes place at the time of death, and (b) there are no second chances following death. So you are sadly mistaken; I am not arguing against scripture, because there is not even one scripture that supports your claims of second chances for salvation given to the dead, or a "state" in which the dead exist while awaiting some future judgement.

Surely you can see the difference between a second chance given to someone IN THIS LIFE and a second chance given to someone WHILE THEY ARE DEAD.

"But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul will be required of you" (Luke 12:20)

[titus213]

Oh, but that is not the second chance you have been thinking of now, is it? I quote from your earlirer post: "My response to this was to question the time between the spirit leaving the body and judgment and if it was possible to be saved in this period of time."
You are projecting the possibility of a second chance following death while in some sort of imaginary state. So let us not begin to mix apples and oranges by suddenly shifting the point you are wanting to make to a second chance while still alive.

Not so, you've been reading words I have not been speaking. Perhaps you are reading what you want me to be saying. I simply asked the question -- read it again. "...was to question.... and IF it was possible" I have not projected anything, I simply asked. The reply I received was that there were no second chances, which as you have acknowledge is not true, people were indeed raised from the dead and given another chance. And I believe we both will agree - there is no promise of a second chance.

Wrong again. I have just been reading the words you wrote. For instance when you wrote : "Okay, then you admit there is a time period between death and judgment. And from testimonies of respected Christians that have died they were conscious and aware. So why can't someone in this state cry out for God in faith? Also, because they were indeed dead and brought back to life, they indeed are given another opportunity to accept Christ, a second chance."

Now you may want to do the fast shuffle and make out that what you really meant was a second chance for those brought back to life during their lifetimes, but obviously that isn't what you wrote about. The Bible never teaches anything to support what you were suggesting. That's all I'm saying.

[Grandfather]

Wrong again. I have just been reading the words you wrote. For instance when you wrote : "Okay, then you admit there is a time period between death and judgment. And from testimonies of respected Christians that have died they were conscious and aware. So why can't someone in this state cry out for God in faith? Also, because they were indeed dead and brought back to life, they indeed are given another opportunity to accept Christ, a second chance."

Now you may want to do the fast shuffle and make out that what you really meant was a second chance for those brought back to life during their lifetimes, but obviously that isn't what you wrote about. The Bible never teaches anything to support what you were suggesting. That's all I'm saying.

Who is "fast shuffling" here? Not me. Let's go back to page 3 of this thread. I asked the question :"So then I raised the question of scriptural accounts of people being raised from the dead. Where these people judged?"

And your reply was: [center]

"No they were not judged… The judgment comes after their appointment with death. If they were raised from the dead, and then died afterward, their judgment did not occur until their ultimate death. It is appointed unto man to die once, not twice. And it is following that one death that judgment takes place."

(the statement "ultimate death" raises other questions, but that's for another time.)[/center]

You're the one jumping through hoops to make exceptions for those that have been raised from the dead. According to you..." judgement takes place at the time of death" except for these people that have been raised from the dead, unless you're changing your theology as we go.

So I ask you again, where were these people? And for these people why couldn't they cry out prior to their judgment? And since they came back to life, explain how they were not given a second chance?

Now, listen to what I am not saying. I am not saying anything after death is promised. I'm not saying that people are promised a space of time between death and judgment. I am not saying because some people have had second chances that anyone is promised a second chance.

But, saying there are no second chances... is simply not true! Those that were raised from the dead prove it. Saying that no one is promised a second chance is absolutely true, but it is also absolutely different.