Dake Bible Discussion BoardWHO ARE WATCHERS?

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Ironman
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WHO ARE WATCHERS?

Post by Ironman »

WATCHERS are mentioned twice in Scripture;

Jer 4:16, Make ye mention to the nations; behold, publish against Jerusalem, that WATCHERS come from a far country, and give out their voice against the cities of Judah.

Dan 4:17, This matter is by the decree of the WATCHERS,, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

Who are WATCHERS? Are they angels sent by God?


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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Ironman
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Re: WHO ARE WATCHERS?

Post by Ironman »

Here's another verse mentioning a watcher, that's 3 not 2 times now?

Dan.4:13, V 13, I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, A WATCHER and an holy one came down from heaven;

A watcher AND a Holy One came down from Heaven. Who are watchers?


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

titus213
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Re: WHO ARE WATCHERS?

Post by titus213 »

I think that in Daniel 4 the reference is definitely to an angel because he is also called a "holy one".

But in Jeremiah 4 it is a different Hebrew word, and in that context it seems to me that it refers to the Babylonian invaders who would besiege the city. See Isaiah 1:8 and Ezekiel 6:12 where the same word is translated as "besiege". In other words the watcher = the besieger.



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Ironman
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Re: WHO ARE WATCHERS?

Post by Ironman »

Yes, it says in Dan. 4:13, A watcher AND a Holy One came down from Heaven. So their different in at least that way. One is a watcher and the other a Holy One.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

titus213
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Re: WHO ARE WATCHERS?

Post by titus213 »

No, only one is mentioned. The Hebrew word "holy one" modifies watcher: "a watcher, even a holy one". See NKJV and pretty much all other translations. That's why the verbs are singular in the following verses.



victoryword
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Re: WHO ARE WATCHERS?

Post by victoryword »

The Book of Enoch (Apocrypha)

Chapter 7
1It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful.

2And when the angels, (3) the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamoured of them, saying to each other, Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children.
  • (3) An Aramaic text reads "Watchers" here (J.T. Milik, Aramaic Fragments of Qumran Cave 4 [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1976], p. 167).



Michael Evans

Re: WHO ARE WATCHERS?

Post by Michael Evans »

As interesting as the Book of Enoch is, I can see why it's not regarded as scripture. As in the (travesty of a movie) NOAH, the 'Watchers' are depicted as holy angels sent by God to watch over the earth who fell into sin over their attraction to the 'daughters of Adam'. After Lucifrer's fall and the creation of Hell, I don't believe any more holy angels have sinned.
I believe Dake's interpretation of this incident is far more accurate. After the fall, the only promise of God man and the devil knew about was the coming of a 'seed of woman' who would 'bruise' the 'head' of the serpent'(ie. take away his regained dominion and bring about his everlasting destruction in Hell) and have His heel bruised (ie.undergo temporary suffering- nails went through the heels of Christ on the cross). To prevent this, Satan sent some of his already fallen angels to live on the earth and produce half-breeds to corrupt the race so that this 'seed' couldn't come. (I don't believe Satan had any light on the Incarnation. I think he and Eve thought at first that the 'seed' was Abel, thus his murder and Eve's belief that Seth had come to replace him). It doesn't sound like these angels could return to their 'former estate' and died on the earth-in the flood or before- and were sent to Tartarus. As did their offspring and the second group of angels who did the same thing after the flood. Jesus visited them between the cross and the resurrection to proclaim to them that their plan had failed. The sexual perversion in the promised land (ie. Sodom) was also a strategy of Satan to hinder the holy birth of the 'seed of the woman' (ie. Mary, as later prophecies/scriptures reveal).
The watchers mentioned in the book of Daniel are- I believe- holy angels sent by God to monitor the activities of the Earth. Now what mystifies me are the angels mentioned in Zechariah 5:9 which are supposedly female in appearance......



victoryword
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Re: WHO ARE WATCHERS?

Post by victoryword »

Michael, I agree more with yours (and Dake's) understanding of what happened. While I question the authenticity of the book of Enoch I am a firm believer that much "fiction" is based on valid truth though the truth is often distorted and exaggerated in order to tell what might be a more interesting story.



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