Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ The land of Israel belongs to the Jews

[frad70]

There isn't any place in the Bible that says we are to bless the Jewish nation. The blessing is to Abraham and his seed, and as Paul explains in Romans, that does not include unbelieving Jews.

I disagree.
The New Testament speaks of 3 groups of people: Israel, the Church of God and the Heathens.
Salvation comes from the Jews.
Guys, read John Hagee and Derek Prince on the subject.
Are you into the Replacement theology?
To me, if someone is a non-born again Catholic and doesn't want to get saved it is probably better for him or her to convert to Orthodox Judaism.

[Justaned]

Christians send money to almost any Jewish political cause even though it is a godless nation (as is ours). Christians are enamored with Jewish things and lose sight of reality: for example the current popularity of rabbi Daniel Lappen among Christians. He makes no bones about mocking messianic Jews and any belief in Jesus, yet gets prime time on Christian tv.
I agree that we are to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. But that will not come from God's enemies, whether Palestinian or Jewish.

Okay I understand you concern is about poor steward ship. I agree I just didn't know what you were talking about.
Remember the old saying a fool and his money are soon parted. Christian TV for the most part thrives on that concept.

[titus213]

There isn't any place in the Bible that says we are to bless the Jewish nation. The blessing is to Abraham and his seed, and as Paul explains in Romans, that does not include unbelieving Jews.

I disagree.
The New Testament speaks of 3 groups of people: Israel, the Church of God and the Heathens.
Salvation comes from the Jews.
Guys, read John Hagee and Derek Prince on the subject.
Are you into the Replacement theology?
To me, if someone is a non-born again Catholic and doesn't want to get saved it is probably better for him or her to convert to Orthodox Judaism.

Oh I absolutely am not into replacement theology. But you misrepresent the teaching of the New Testament. It does not just speak of three groups, it carefully distinguishes between Israel after the flesh and the Israel of God. It is true that there is a remnant, but it is not true that Israel after the flesh is under the blessing of God. That is where Derek Prince and John Hagee are in error. As pointed out earlier from the Dake quotation, God has left the house of Israel desolate. We should not be trying to call down blessing on what he has desolated. Israel after the flesh has been cut off from the tree, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

[Ironman]

Personally, I would stay right out of this. Nothing any country can or will do will stop this hatred of the Jews. If someone was firing rockets into my back yard it would be only reasonable to try and stop this any way one can and if Israel believes firing rocket's back works then so be it. This hatred towards Israel will continue until Jesus returns.

Sheik Palazzi states the Koran clearly predicts"that before the end of days, God will bring the Children of Israel to retake possession of the Land, gathering them from the different countries and nations (Sura 17:104) At a time when the Muslim world seems to have been taken over by Islamic extremism, worshipping shahidim and virulent hatred of Israel and the west, Sheikh Professor Abdul Hadi Palazzi is an outspoken critic of this fanaticism, suicide bombings and jihad and supports the "Jewish divine right" to the Land of Israel.

With a doctorate in Islamic sciences from the Institute for Islamic Studies and Research in Naples (by authorization of the former Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia), and ijazzah (authorization to teach) both Koranic exegesis and Islamic law from the prestigious University of al-Azhar as-Sharif in Cairo, Palazzi backs his somewhat position with citations from the Koran and traditional Muslim sources.

Palazzi states that Israel exists by"divine right"and that the Koran clearly states (Sura 5:21) that God granted the Land of Israel to the Children of Israel and ordered them to settle there. In addition, it is predicted that before the end of days, God will bring the Children of Israel to retake possession of the Land, gathering them from the different countries and nations (Sura 17:104).Oddly enough, Palazzi's reading of the Koran is backed up by, of all sources, Al Qaida.

[titus213]

I certainly don't hate the Jews but rather pray for their eyes to be opened by the Spirit to receive their Messiah. And you're right about Israel's right to self-defense. My objection is only to the tendency for some Christians to rubber stamp anything the current State of Israel does, almost making it sound like God is behind it. The Israelis need a Savior just as we all do.

[frad70]

Everybody needs the Messiah - Jews and Gentiles alike. But I see Derek and John as great restorers of the truth of the special status of Israel in the flesh. There were two images: the stars for the born again people and the sand for those who weren't. Both were Abraham's offspring and blessed.

[titus213]

Without having to resort to dubious symbolic interpretation of images, Here is how Dake sums it up from his comments in Daniel 9:

Israel, being broken off because of unbelief at the crucifixion of Christ, must be restored again to their own land and get control of Jerusalem. Just before the crucifixion Jesus wept over Jerusalem saying, "How often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate . . . . ye shall not see Me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is He that cometh in the name of the Lord" (Mt. 21:43; 23:37-39; 24:2; Lk. 21:20-24). This is the official rejection of Israel as a nation until the second coming of Christ. God could not have fulfilled the 70th week with them immediately following the crucifixion because of cutting them off at this time. The 70th week remains to be fulfilled when God deals with them as a nation again (Ezek. 37). He cannot do this until the new nation of Israel gets control of Jerusalem again, for the whole 70 weeks concern Israel and Jerusalem (Dan. 9:24). Neither can the 70th week be fulfilled until the temple is built again in Jerusalem (Dan. 9:26-27).

[titus213]

"Both were Abraham's offspring and blessed."

Not according to the Word of God.

For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.” (Rom 9:6-9)

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.
(Rom 2:28-29)

As Dake once again explains: A true Jew is not the one who is circumcised in the flesh, neither is true circumcision in the flesh. A true Jew is one that has inward circumcision of the heart and in the spirit and has more than an outward cutting in the flesh and a profession of truth. This does not teach that every Christian is a Jew, but to be a true Jew one must be of the seed of Abraham, and have circumcision of the heart, and be a child of the promise (Rom. 2:28-29; 9:6-7).