Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Making Jesus Lord

[Justaned]

What???????????????? I said faith without works is dead faith.

So then you are saying faith PLUS works right?

So then I'm saying faith plus works for what? You have lost me some where.

This thread is talking of the Lordship of Jesus Christ. I'm saying a mature Christian does more than simply believe in Christ. They put works to their faith. They strive for righteousness, the obey Jesus many commands, they attend church, the are committed to a church, they encourage one another, they exhort and edify other believers, the support ministry with offerings, and they worship God with their tithe.

When I meet someone that says I believe therefore I am saved but they are still living in the world, holding to the world's value system, doing what they please, sleeping in on Sunday morning and refusing to pay their tithe because the Pastor owns a corvette I have a hard time accepting that they are in fact saved.

[bibleman]

What???????????????? I said faith without works is dead faith.

So then you are saying faith PLUS works right?

So then I'm saying faith plus works for what? You have lost me some where.

This thread is talking of the Lordship of Jesus Christ. I'm saying a mature Christian does more than simply believe in Christ. They put works to their faith. They strive for righteousness, the obey Jesus many commands, they attend church, the are committed to a church, they encourage one another, they exhort and edify other believers, the support ministry with offerings, and they worship God with their tithe.

When I meet someone that says I believe therefore I am saved but they are still living in the world, holding to the world's value system, doing what they please, sleeping in on Sunday morning and refusing to pay their tithe because the Pastor owns a corvette I have a hard time accepting that they are in fact saved.

Sorry I was going by your statement "...they don't have to do anything but have faith."

[Rocky]

What???????????????? I said faith without works is dead faith.

So then you are saying faith PLUS works right?

So then I'm saying faith plus works for what? You have lost me some where.

This thread is talking of the Lordship of Jesus Christ. I'm saying a mature Christian does more than simply believe in Christ. They put works to their faith. They strive for righteousness, the obey Jesus many commands, they attend church, the are committed to a church, they encourage one another, they exhort and edify other believers, the support ministry with offerings, and they worship God with their tithe.

When I meet someone that says I believe therefore I am saved but they are still living in the world, holding to the world's value system, doing what they please, sleeping in on Sunday morning and refusing to pay their tithe because the Pastor owns a corvette I have a hard time accepting that they are in fact saved.

Oh my gosh!!!! So Ed we are saved because we pay our tithe and go to Sunday school and belong to some building? Ed I am not allowed in the churches in my area what then? Gosh I hate religion.. You are turning salvation in to works, the works that the bible talks about is showing love, not being religious. And no I don't forsake assembling, I have Christian friends and a wife that is a Christian, I just cant go to a church building because they don't want me and my wife to be blemishes in there perfect looking congregation. You also are twisting my words, I never said anything about faith in my faith. My faith is in Jesus. I don't want your dried old dead religion, I want Jesus, give me Jesus.. And Ed Jesus gave 2 commandments, you say many so you can boast and say look how good I am, I go to church, I pay my tithe, I do this I do that. Such self-righteousness comes form your replies. You are very judgmental watch out, you may be judged, I know Jesus does not like that kind of attitude, He called people with your attitude vipers.. Ed is so Holy because he does this and this.. Ed here a little snippet form a song I know
I am so Holy can't you see
I am so Holy can;t you see
You are not half as good as me
So why are you up there when I am burning down here..

And here is something you should read as well:
He told his next story to some who were complacently pleased with themselves over their moral performance and looked down their noses at the common people: “Two men went up to the Temple to pray, one a Pharisee, the other a tax man. The Pharisee posed and prayed like this: ‘Oh, God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, crooks, adulterers, or, heaven forbid, like this tax man. I fast twice a week and tithe on all my income.’

13 “Meanwhile the tax man, slumped in the shadows, his face in his hands, not daring to look up, said, ‘God, give mercy. Forgive me, a sinner.’”

14 Jesus commented, “This tax man, not the other, went home made right with God. If you walk around with your nose in the air, you’re going to end up flat on your face, but if you’re content to be simply yourself, you will become more than yourself.”



Or if you like a more formal sounding way of putting it:
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

I don't want religion, I don't want to be an elitist or think I am better then other because I do this or that, just give me Jesus..

[Justaned]

What???????????????? I said faith without works is dead faith.

So then you are saying faith PLUS works right?

So then I'm saying faith plus works for what? You have lost me some where.

This thread is talking of the Lordship of Jesus Christ. I'm saying a mature Christian does more than simply believe in Christ. They put works to their faith. They strive for righteousness, the obey Jesus many commands, they attend church, the are committed to a church, they encourage one another, they exhort and edify other believers, the support ministry with offerings, and they worship God with their tithe.

When I meet someone that says I believe therefore I am saved but they are still living in the world, holding to the world's value system, doing what they please, sleeping in on Sunday morning and refusing to pay their tithe because the Pastor owns a corvette I have a hard time accepting that they are in fact saved.

Oh my gosh!!!! So Ed we are saved because we pay our tithe and go to Sunday school and belong to some building? Ed I am not allowed in the churches in my area what then? Gosh I hate religion.. You are turning salvation in to works, the works that the bible talks about is showing love, not being religious. And no I don't forsake assembling, I have Christian friends and a wife that is a Christian, I just cant go to a church building because they don't want me and my wife to be blemishes in there perfect looking congregation. You also are twisting my words, I never said anything about faith in my faith. My faith is in Jesus. I don't want your dried old dead religion, I want Jesus, give me Jesus.. And Ed Jesus gave 2 commandments, you say many so you can boast and say look how good I am, I go to church, I pay my tithe, I do this I do that. Such self-righteousness comes form your replies. You are very judgmental watch out, you may be judged, I know Jesus does not like that kind of attitude, He called people with your attitude vipers.. Ed is so Holy because he does this and this.. Ed here a little snippet form a song I know
I am so Holy can't you see
I am so Holy can;t you see
You are not half as good as me
So why are you up there when I am burning down here..

And here is something you should read as well:
He told his next story to some who were complacently pleased with themselves over their moral performance and looked down their noses at the common people: “Two men went up to the Temple to pray, one a Pharisee, the other a tax man. The Pharisee posed and prayed like this: ‘Oh, God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, crooks, adulterers, or, heaven forbid, like this tax man. I fast twice a week and tithe on all my income.’

13 “Meanwhile the tax man, slumped in the shadows, his face in his hands, not daring to look up, said, ‘God, give mercy. Forgive me, a sinner.’”

14 Jesus commented, “This tax man, not the other, went home made right with God. If you walk around with your nose in the air, you’re going to end up flat on your face, but if you’re content to be simply yourself, you will become more than yourself.”



Or if you like a more formal sounding way of putting it:
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

I don't want religion, I don't want to be an elitist or think I am better then other because I do this or that, just give me Jesus..

If the truth be told you don't anything that inconveniences Rocky and your problems aren't yours they are everyone else's.

I am not turning salvation into anything. I'm saying faith without works is dead. That is scripture refute that.
I didn't say salvation was secured by any of these things, I said if there is real salvation they will occur.

[Rocky]

Ed wroteIf the truth be told you don't anything that inconveniences Rocky and your problems aren't yours they are everyone else's.

Really, out of every thing I wrote that is all you got from it.

Ed wrote: I am not turning salvation into anything. I'm saying faith without works is dead.

No that is not what you have been saying, you been trying to justify Lordship salvation, if you would have simply said "I'm saying faith without works is dead" I would not have said any thing. Of course I believe our definition of works are different. I believe the works what James talks about is love, and benevolence, helping peoples needs and such.

Ed Wrote: That is scripture refute that.
I didn't say salvation was secured by any of these things, I said if there is real salvation they will occur.

Again that is not what you have been saying. Now I get some of what you have been trying to say, all joking aside, I know people who say they believe but live in a way that contradicts that. But at times Ed You seem to be like that praying Pharisees in Jesus's parable. I just believe that MacArthur's Lordship salvation that you are trying to pitch here is not biblical, and turns Christians in to judgmental bung holes. Ed, I and you are nothing without Jesus, so why be an elitist and judge every one? A lot of your posts and threads seem very negative and condescending, its all about how bad other Christians are and how good you are..

[macca]

Don't forget, Rocky, that "faith" and "trust" are two different things.
macca

[Rocky]

Don't forget, Rocky, that "faith" and "trust" are two different things.
macca

Yes, but do they not go together, sometimes simultaneously acting with each other? Sometimes you cant have faith without trust David was always saying "In Him do I put my trust."

[stand]

if i hire someone to clean my house, he is not working as i have told him, i will give me a few more chances to change, if not, i will fire him sure.

[Justaned]

Ed wroteIf the truth be told you don't anything that inconveniences Rocky and your problems aren't yours they are everyone else's.

Really, out of every thing I wrote that is all you got from it.

Ed wrote: I am not turning salvation into anything. I'm saying faith without works is dead.

No that is not what you have been saying, you been trying to justify Lordship salvation, if you would have simply said "I'm saying faith without works is dead" I would not have said any thing. Of course I believe our definition of works are different. I believe the works what James talks about is love, and benevolence, helping peoples needs and such.

Ed Wrote: That is scripture refute that.
I didn't say salvation was secured by any of these things, I said if there is real salvation they will occur.

Again that is not what you have been saying. Now I get some of what you have been trying to say, all joking aside, I know people who say they believe but live in a way that contradicts that. But at times Ed You seem to be like that praying Pharisees in Jesus's parable. I just believe that MacArthur's Lordship salvation that you are trying to pitch here is not biblical, and turns Christians in to judgmental bung holes. Ed, I and you are nothing without Jesus, so why be an elitist and judge every one? A lot of your posts and threads seem very negative and condescending, its all about how bad other Christians are and how good you are..

Rocky
Actually that is exactly what I have been saying. You got yourself all tied up in Lordship salvation you simply couldn't see anything I said except that. And the funny part is you are the one that brought up Lordship Salvation. I hadn't heard of it that I recall before you brought it up. I read MacArthur's books where I now see he mentioned Lordship so long ago I had completely forgotten the term or what he applied to if I noticed when he used it.

What I'm talking about is something that was taught to me years before MacAuthur ever wrote his books. I believe I was exposed to what I'm talking about at a Evangelical United Brethren 2 week church camp back in the late 50's early 60's. By the way EUB is now Methodist and they are Wesleyanand here is their tulip
‘T’ – Total Depravity – Wesley rejected the idea (preferring “complete corruption”) until later in his ministry, when he accepted the thought of humanity’s complete rejection of God without Christ.
‘U’ – Unconditional Election – Wesley and most Methodists reject this premise outright. They believe that Christ died for “all” and He “does not wish that any would perish.”
‘L’ – Limited Atonement – Wesley and most Methodists believe in “unlimited atonement.” Not that Christ brought about universal salvation, but that all sins of all humanity have been atoned for by Christ.
‘I’ – Irresistible Grace – Wesley and most Methodists believe in “resistible grace.” Humanity can reject God’s grace simply by acting out of their total depravity (or complete corruption).
‘P’ – Perseverance of the Saints – Wesley and many Methodists believe that a believer saved by grace can sin to such an extent that that one can lose their salvation.

If you find Calvinism in there you are seeing something no body has.

[Ironman]

if i hire someone to clean my house, he is not working as i have told him, i will give me a few more chances to change, if not, i will fire him sure.

Hi Mate,

How many chances would you give this bloke? I hired a bloke, "Professional maintenance" man to clean the outside of my home. He arrived, gave me a quote, and said he could start now if I liked. before I could say yes or no, he asked me; "Do you own a Pressure Cleaner I could use?"

No Joke, this is true!