Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ What do you think?

[bibleman]

“The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ, in God’s sight, they are accepted and righteous. So we can say that we are more wicked than we ever dared believe, but more loved and accepted in Christ than we ever dared hope — at the very same time. This creates a radical new dynamic for personal growth. It means that the more you see your own flaws and sins, the more precious, electrifying, and amazing God’s grace appears to you. But on the other hand, the more aware you are of God’s grace and acceptance in Christ, the more able you are to drop your denials and self-defenses and admit the true dimensions and character of your sin.” Tim Keller

Sounds like Tim needs to get himself a Bible and read it!

“The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ, in God’s sight, they are accepted and righteous. So we can say that we are more wicked than we ever dared believe,..."

This person has NOT received salvation at all they are still sinning and "more wicked" according to Tim.

So if salvation makes you MORE OF A SINNER then why get saved at all!

Hmmm, that is not what I understand him to be saying. As I understand what he is saying is that because of salvation we are accepted and because of that acceptance we can lift the veil of deception and see how truly horrid our sin was.

Nope Grandfather,

Here is what he said: “The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ,

He said that Christians are, in themselves still sinful and still sinning!.

Did you read that?

[Grandfather]

“The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ, in God’s sight, they are accepted and righteous. So we can say that we are more wicked than we ever dared believe, but more loved and accepted in Christ than we ever dared hope — at the very same time. This creates a radical new dynamic for personal growth. It means that the more you see your own flaws and sins, the more precious, electrifying, and amazing God’s grace appears to you. But on the other hand, the more aware you are of God’s grace and acceptance in Christ, the more able you are to drop your denials and self-defenses and admit the true dimensions and character of your sin.” Tim Keller

Sounds like Tim needs to get himself a Bible and read it!

“The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ, in God’s sight, they are accepted and righteous. So we can say that we are more wicked than we ever dared believe,..."

This person has NOT received salvation at all they are still sinning and "more wicked" according to Tim.

So if salvation makes you MORE OF A SINNER then why get saved at all!

Hmmm, that is not what I understand him to be saying. As I understand what he is saying is that because of salvation we are accepted and because of that acceptance we can lift the veil of deception and see how truly horrid our sin was.

Nope Grandfather,

Here is what he said: “The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ,

He said that Christians are, in themselves still sinful and still sinning!.

Did you read that?

Oh, so you are perfected and you never sin? I mean only sinful people sin correct? So you, being the strong Christian you are can't sin because you can't be sinful.
Therefore, you either are perfected and never sin, or are sinful and still sin? Which is it?

[bibleman]

You guys need to listen to this:

[video][/video]

At about 2:00 he talks about being set free from sin!

[bibleman]

“The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ, in God’s sight, they are accepted and righteous. So we can say that we are more wicked than we ever dared believe, but more loved and accepted in Christ than we ever dared hope — at the very same time. This creates a radical new dynamic for personal growth. It means that the more you see your own flaws and sins, the more precious, electrifying, and amazing God’s grace appears to you. But on the other hand, the more aware you are of God’s grace and acceptance in Christ, the more able you are to drop your denials and self-defenses and admit the true dimensions and character of your sin.” Tim Keller

Sounds like Tim needs to get himself a Bible and read it!

“The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ, in God’s sight, they are accepted and righteous. So we can say that we are more wicked than we ever dared believe,..."

This person has NOT received salvation at all they are still sinning and "more wicked" according to Tim.

So if salvation makes you MORE OF A SINNER then why get saved at all!

Hmmm, that is not what I understand him to be saying. As I understand what he is saying is that because of salvation we are accepted and because of that acceptance we can lift the veil of deception and see how truly horrid our sin was.

Nope Grandfather,

Here is what he said: “The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ,

He said that Christians are, in themselves still sinful and still sinning!.

Did you read that?

Oh, so you are perfected and you never sin? I mean only sinful people sin correct? So you, being the strong Christian you are can't sin because you can't be sinful.
Therefore, you either are perfected and never sin, or are sinful and still sin? Which is it?

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

[Grandfather]

“The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ, in God’s sight, they are accepted and righteous. So we can say that we are more wicked than we ever dared believe, but more loved and accepted in Christ than we ever dared hope — at the very same time. This creates a radical new dynamic for personal growth. It means that the more you see your own flaws and sins, the more precious, electrifying, and amazing God’s grace appears to you. But on the other hand, the more aware you are of God’s grace and acceptance in Christ, the more able you are to drop your denials and self-defenses and admit the true dimensions and character of your sin.” Tim Keller

Sounds like Tim needs to get himself a Bible and read it!

“The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ, in God’s sight, they are accepted and righteous. So we can say that we are more wicked than we ever dared believe,..."

This person has NOT received salvation at all they are still sinning and "more wicked" according to Tim.

So if salvation makes you MORE OF A SINNER then why get saved at all!

Hmmm, that is not what I understand him to be saying. As I understand what he is saying is that because of salvation we are accepted and because of that acceptance we can lift the veil of deception and see how truly horrid our sin was.

Nope Grandfather,

Here is what he said: “The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ,

He said that Christians are, in themselves still sinful and still sinning!.

Did you read that?

Oh, so you are perfected and you never sin? I mean only sinful people sin correct? So you, being the strong Christian you are can't sin because you can't be sinful.
Therefore, you either are perfected and never sin, or are sinful and still sin? Which is it?

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 1:8 If we claim, "We don’t have any sin," we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Two can play this game. Are you perfect and without sin?

[Grandfather]

“The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ, in God’s sight, they are accepted and righteous. So we can say that we are more wicked than we ever dared believe, but more loved and accepted in Christ than we ever dared hope — at the very same time. This creates a radical new dynamic for personal growth. It means that the more you see your own flaws and sins, the more precious, electrifying, and amazing God’s grace appears to you. But on the other hand, the more aware you are of God’s grace and acceptance in Christ, the more able you are to drop your denials and self-defenses and admit the true dimensions and character of your sin.” Tim Keller

In ourselves we are still sinful and sinning
In Christ we are accepted and righteous.

What part or parts of those two statements do you agree or disagree with?

[Ironman]

The father looks at me on my knees daily in prayer, a repentant sinner, repenting in the Name of Jesus, and what He sees is a sinless soul, white as snow. I believe this is how the Father sees everyone who has resigned themselves to be "In Jesus," despite all their daily unintentional errors / sins.

2 Cor. 5:21, For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Isa 1:18, Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

[macca]

“The gospel of justifying faith means that while Christians are, in themselves still sinful and sinning, yet in Christ, in God’s sight, they are accepted and righteous. So we can say that we are more wicked than we ever dared believe, but more loved and accepted in Christ than we ever dared hope — at the very same time. This creates a radical new dynamic for personal growth. It means that the more you see your own flaws and sins, the more precious, electrifying, and amazing God’s grace appears to you. But on the other hand, the more aware you are of God’s grace and acceptance in Christ, the more able you are to drop your denials and self-defenses and admit the true dimensions and character of your sin.” Tim Keller

In ourselves we are still sinful and sinning
In Christ we are accepted and righteous.

What part or parts of those two statements do you agree or disagree with?

Sigh

[cpbeller]

Here are my thoughts on this subject...

[video][/video]

[titus213]

In true Reformed theological form, the quote from Tim Keller tries to maintain the Reformation doctrine of "Simul Justus Et Peccator" (saint and sinner at the same time). Alas, that is the theology of Luther but not of the apostle Paul. In contrast, Paul would forget the things which were behind him, and press forward as a new man, created anew by the power of the Spirit and no longer wallowing in the sense of sin and despair he once felt as an unbelieving Jew.