Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Is God in the "Eternal Now"?

[victoryword]

If God, according to the common belief prevalent in the church, is in an "eternal now" and is able to see the past, present, and future all at the same time, and that He does not experience any sequence of events, then a whole lot of things that the Bible says about God does not make any sense. Here's one:

• 1 Peter 3:20
  Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

This say two things:
1. God is "longsuffering"
2. God "waits".

If God is in an eternal now then how can He be "longsuffering" (enduring something patiently) and how can He be "waiting" for an outcome that He exhaustively foreknows, as a matter of fact, that He has already experienced before we (allegedly speaking), who live in the so-called "realm of time," have an actual experience of it?

I say that we rid ourselves of archaic doctrines that have no BIblical support, and stick to what the Word of God says about Him.

[Justaned]

If God is in an eternal now then how can He be "longsuffering" (enduring something patiently) and how can He be "waiting" for an outcome that He exhaustively foreknows, as a matter of fact, that He has already experienced before we (allegedly speaking), who live in the so-called "realm of time," have an actual experience of it?

Because God is God. If God could only do what man can do what would make HIm God? The fact that God can and does bear with us even while knowing the outcome is what makes God God. The fact you can't see this is because you try to reduce God down to man while you elevate man up to god. You have placed human limitations on an infinite being. What you don't even realize is you are not even capable of imagining limiting God. Yet that is exactly what you attempt.

I agree let us get back to the worship of the one true God. The God of scripture that scripture has declared that with HIm nothing is impossible. If God doesn't know the future then how did he foretell all that He did and have it come to pass just as He described? If God doesn't know the future how did he take John and show him the future. John not only saw the future of this earth but the future of heaven, that future of this world and the future of the New Heaven and New Earth. John was just told he was shown. How could that happen.

One of two ways

1. God hired a bunch of actors and they put together the Revelation production company and acted it out in front of John
OR
2. God transcends time and took John into our future and showed him exactly what was taking place, as John testified happened.

You pick 1 or 2 and then tell me about my God.

[victoryword]

If God is in an eternal now then how can He be "longsuffering" (enduring something patiently) and how can He be "waiting" for an outcome that He exhaustively foreknows, as a matter of fact, that He has already experienced before we (allegedly speaking), who live in the so-called "realm of time," have an actual experience of it?

Because God is God. If God could only do what man can do what would make HIm God? The fact that God can and does bear with us even while knowing the outcome is what makes God God. The fact you can't see this is because you try to reduce God down to man while you elevate man up to god. You have placed human limitations on an infinite being. What you don't even realize is you are not even capable of imagining limiting God. Yet that is exactly what you attempt.

I agree let us get back to the worship of the one true God. The God of scripture that scripture has declared that with HIm nothing is impossible. If God doesn't know the future then how did he foretell all that He did and have it come to pass just as He described? If God doesn't know the future how did he take John and show him the future. John not only saw the future of this earth but the future of heaven, that future of this world and the future of the New Heaven and New Earth. John was just told he was shown. How could that happen.

One of two ways

1. God hired a bunch of actors and they put together the Revelation production company and acted it out in front of John
OR
2. God transcends time and took John into our future and showed him exactly what was taking place, as John testified happened.

You pick 1 or 2 and then tell me about my God.

Because "God is God" is not a Biblical answer. That is indeed the Calvinist way: invent a theory about God's sovereignty and omniscience and when confronted with Scripture just refer back to "God is God, how dare you question Him."

You guys simply don't have a Biblical answer. It was answers like yours I was getting when I was searching for answers during the period that I still held to the "eternal now" and "exhaustive foreknowledge" views. I would ask people who were supposed to know and the only thing they would do is appeal to God's "sovereignty" or His "mystery" or "orthodoxy" but hardly ever to Scripture. The few Scripture any would appeal to is the ones that speak about God being eternal and then they would give their own spin... I mean... "explanation" of what it means for God to be eternal.

So if you are here to straighten us all out Ed, you would think that you would show yourself to be a better Bible exegete. Instead you think you can bully someone into compliance with your unbiblical beliefs using posts like the above. Haven't you found after all of these years such methods will never work?

[Justaned]

If God is in an eternal now then how can He be "longsuffering" (enduring something patiently) and how can He be "waiting" for an outcome that He exhaustively foreknows, as a matter of fact, that He has already experienced before we (allegedly speaking), who live in the so-called "realm of time," have an actual experience of it?

Because God is God. If God could only do what man can do what would make HIm God? The fact that God can and does bear with us even while knowing the outcome is what makes God God. The fact you can't see this is because you try to reduce God down to man while you elevate man up to god. You have placed human limitations on an infinite being. What you don't even realize is you are not even capable of imagining limiting God. Yet that is exactly what you attempt.

I agree let us get back to the worship of the one true God. The God of scripture that scripture has declared that with HIm nothing is impossible. If God doesn't know the future then how did he foretell all that He did and have it come to pass just as He described? If God doesn't know the future how did he take John and show him the future. John not only saw the future of this earth but the future of heaven, that future of this world and the future of the New Heaven and New Earth. John was just told he was shown. How could that happen.

One of two ways

1. God hired a bunch of actors and they put together the Revelation production company and acted it out in front of John
OR
2. God transcends time and took John into our future and showed him exactly what was taking place, as John testified happened.

You pick 1 or 2 and then tell me about my God.

Because "God is God" is not a Biblical answer. That is indeed the Calvinist way: invent a theory about God's sovereignty and omniscience and when confronted with Scripture just refer back to "God is God, how dare you question Him."

You guys simply don't have a Biblical answer. It was answers like yours I was getting when I was searching for answers during the period that I still held to the "eternal now" and "exhaustive foreknowledge" views. I would ask people who were supposed to know and the only thing they would do is appeal to God's "sovereignty" or His "mystery" or "orthodoxy" but hardly ever to Scripture. The few Scripture any would appeal to is the ones that speak about God being eternal and then they would give their own spin... I mean... "explanation" of what it means for God to be eternal.

So if you are here to straighten us all out Ed, you would think that you would show yourself to be a better Bible exegete. Instead you think you can bully someone into compliance with your unbiblical beliefs using posts like the above. Haven't you found after all of these years such methods will never work?

Okay read Psalm 22 now tell me how God gave the psalmist the ability to write in such exacting detail of crucifixion of Jesus without being able to see it. Remember it was written long before crucifixion was a form of execution.
Or tell me how God could layout the panoramic view of the End Times before John could write The Book of Revelation as an eyewitness not just a second party report.
Answer those two questions with a logical explanation other than God made a lucky guess.

[victoryword]

Ed and Grandfather, Let me ask you guys one more question since the thread has now been diverted to how "powerful" God is.

Can your God change the already known future that He Himself did not ordain?

[bibleman]

2. That eternity is made up of time and that time shall not cease?
There is a time and a season for everything done under the sun (Eccl. 3).
God originally made the sun, moon, and stars to regulate times and seasons on the eternal Earth. The work of Day Four was the permanent restoration of the solar system in connection with the restored Earth, to divide the day from the night; and to be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years forever (Gen. 1:14-18).
This solar regulation causing endless time on the Earth is eternal: “They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations . . . His name shall endure for ever: His name shall be continued as long as the sun” (Ps. 72:5, 17);
“I have sworn unto David my servant, Thy seed will I establish for ever . . . his throne as the days of Heaven . . . as the sun before me. It shall be established for ever as the moon” (Ps. 89:4, 27-37);
“Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night . . . If those ordinances depart from me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease being a nation before me for ever” (Jer. 31:35-36; 33:20-22).
God promised Noah that there would be day and night, summer and winter, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, forever on the Earth (Gen. 8:22).
The Earth is eternal, so time made up of seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, and years is also eternal (Eccl. 1:4; Ps. 104:5).
When the Bible says “time no longer” it should be “delay no longer,” for it speaks of days and years continuing after this (Rev. 10:6-7; 12:6, 14; 13:5; 20:1-7).
When the Bible says “there shall be no night there” it speaks of the city, the New Jerusalem, and not of the Earth outside of the city (Rev. 21:23-27).
Thus, we must conclude that time will continue eternally.
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 111.

3. That you are in eternity now?
As we have seen above, eternity will be made up of time as we now know it; so if time continues eternally as it is now, in the sense of being in eternal time, we are now in eternity.
We do not mean that we are now in our eternal state, for that will not be true until we enter into immortality (1 Cor. 15:51-58; Phil. 3:20-21).
But we can truly say that we are in time that will be eternal and that we are in part of eternity now.
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 111.

[victoryword]

Never read that explanation by Dake before. Great stuff. It seems like Dake did not miss a beat on any controversial subject.

[scottae316]

There is a continuous misunderstanding about what time is. Time is simply a measurement, the same as a mile or a meter. Why do Christians want to assign some metaphysical and mystical power and life to it? God speaks to us in terms we can understand, hence His usage of time references and eternal. Is a mile eternal?

[Justaned]

We also know God travels the universe yet to us what is impossible since the universe is billions of light years across. If God is restrained by time how could he see the ends of the universe yet be here at an one moment to hear our prayers.

Bibleman and Victorywood insists on thinking of God in human terms with human limitations they will not accept that God is not limited as we are, not constrained by time as we are and can move freely about in the dimension of time as we know it.

[Rocky]

We also know God travels the universe yet to us what is impossible since the universe is billions of light years across. If God is restrained by time how could he see the ends of the universe yet be here at an one moment to hear our prayers.

Bibleman and Victorywood insists on thinking of God in human terms with human limitations they will not accept that God is not limited as we are, not constrained by time as we are and can move freely about in the dimension of time as we know it.

No Ed, Leon and Troy are thinking of God of what is reveled in scripture. You want people to dismiss certain passages because for what ever reason you don't like it. Man Ed, what do you have against people taking the bible for what it says?