Dake Bible Discussion BoardGenerational Curse

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Grandfather
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Re: Generational Curse

Post by Grandfather »

Gentlemen,

This discussion has taken a rabbit trail from what I was intending. It's apparent to me that no one has any real information on "generational curses" or if they do they aren't sharing. What has been shared is a passing knowledge that seems to be gather from an overheard conversation and a general opinion. There is nothing wrong with not being familiar, but I was looking for a deeper insight.

Thank you for at least attempting to answer my question.



Rocky

Re: Generational Curse

Post by Rocky »

Lol, yeah it did get on a rabbit trail. Sorry about that, someone mentioned Antinomianism for some reason, and I took the bait. I admit I do not have much knowledge of this, It hard to find it in the bible and I have always had somewhat of an aversion to this teaching...



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Justaned
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
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Re: Generational Curse

Post by Justaned »

Holiness Holiness Holiness Holiness Holiness Holiness Holiness Holiness
Romans 6:15 (NKJV)
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
Romans 6:16 (NKJV)
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
Romans 6:18-19 (NKJV)
18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

Romans 6:19 (NLT)
19 Because of the weakness of your human nature, I am using the illustration of slavery to help you understand all this. Previously, you let yourselves be slaves to impurity and lawlessness, which led ever deeper into sin. Now you must give yourselves to be slaves to righteous living so that you will become holy.

Hebrews 12:14 (NKJV)
14 ... and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:

Holiness always seems to get a lost in such discussions.



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Justaned
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 1938
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Re: Generational Curse

Post by Justaned »

Grandfather wrote:Gentlemen,

This discussion has taken a rabbit trail from what I was intending. It's apparent to me that no one has any real information on "generational curses" or if they do they aren't sharing. What has been shared is a passing knowledge that seems to be gather from an overheard conversation and a general opinion. There is nothing wrong with not being familiar, but I was looking for a deeper insight.

Thank you for at least attempting to answer my question.
Grandfather I think you are right we don't have much information on generational curses. Why? Because if we are in Christ was are NEW CREATIONS, the old things have passed away. A Christian is no longer under any curse.

Many Christians want to excuse their behavior as being a product of their upbringing, society, parental guidance and etc.

But that is nonsense we are New Creatures born anew in Christ. Our birth date in not when we physically came into this world but rather the day we were born again.

Sadly too many try to hold to the old man, the old creation and often they try to use this to excuse their lifestyle.



Rocky

Re: Generational Curse

Post by Rocky »

Justaned wrote:Holiness Holiness Holiness Holiness Holiness Holiness Holiness Holiness
Romans 6:15 (NKJV)
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
Romans 6:16 (NKJV)
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
Romans 6:18-19 (NKJV)
18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

Romans 6:19 (NLT)
19 Because of the weakness of your human nature, I am using the illustration of slavery to help you understand all this. Previously, you let yourselves be slaves to impurity and lawlessness, which led ever deeper into sin. Now you must give yourselves to be slaves to righteous living so that you will become holy.

Hebrews 12:14 (NKJV)
14 ... and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:

Holiness always seems to get a lost in such discussions.
Ed I don't know one person on this board that is against holiness. I just don't believe I am all Holy In my self...



titus213
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Re: Generational Curse

Post by titus213 »

1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen generation,a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

As a believer I am part of a new generation...there is no curse because Jesus took care of it at Calvary.



Grandfather
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Re: Generational Curse

Post by Grandfather »

Justaned wrote:
Grandfather wrote:Gentlemen,

This discussion has taken a rabbit trail from what I was intending. It's apparent to me that no one has any real information on "generational curses" or if they do they aren't sharing. What has been shared is a passing knowledge that seems to be gather from an overheard conversation and a general opinion. There is nothing wrong with not being familiar, but I was looking for a deeper insight.

Thank you for at least attempting to answer my question.
Grandfather I think you are right we don't have much information on generational curses. Why? Because if we are in Christ was are NEW CREATIONS, the old things have passed away. A Christian is no longer under any curse.

Many Christians want to excuse their behavior as being a product of their upbringing, society, parental guidance and etc.

But that is nonsense we are New Creatures born anew in Christ. Our birth date in not when we physically came into this world but rather the day we were born again.

Sadly too many try to hold to the old man, the old creation and often they try to use this to excuse their lifestyle.
Justaned,

Had you taken the time to comprehend my opening post, you would have seen that I don't believe in the traditional "Generational Curse" for the very reason you mentioned. Yes, I too believe that often the idea of a "generational curse" is used to avoid the personal responsibility factor. However, the "new creature" response seems to be the same avoidance of responsibility from the ministry perspective.

While indeed we are "new creatures", I'm certain that we don't understand what that really means and what it applies to. The same person that wrote 2 Cor 5:17 also wrote Romans 12:2 where he say we need to RENEW our minds. If our minds are "a new creature" then, what is there to renew?

Now, I do not mean that you and/or Rocky don't have information and insight that may help. I'm simply pointing out that neither of you appear to be aware of the many different teaches that fall under the banner of "Generational Curses". As for me, I see too many believers struggling to be free of that same (or very similar) sins that beset their parents and grandparents, even when all the generations served the Lord. Is it a curse? Not in the traditional sense. Is it learned behavior? I'm not sure. Is it a coping mechanism that covers some brokeness? That's another possibility. Could it be all of the above? Maybe. But what is hard to deny are the statistics - if your parents were divorced, you are at a higher likelihood for divorce. If there was a problem with alcoholism, the same is true. If there was a struggle with pornography, it is likely to be repeated. If there was spouse abuse, it is likely to continue. I've read the studies and I've seen them in my office.

What I do know is that giving people the scriptures that have been sited in this brief discussion does little to offer help to those who are in this predicament. They offer hope, but because deliverance doesn't come, that other scripture is also true... Hope deferred makes a heart sick... and often they resign themselves to be trapped, fighting the fight that Paul describes in Romans 7, another discussion on this forum.

I do hope each of you will take some time, research the full spectrum of this subject and help me help others walk free in Christ.



Grandfather
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Re: Generational Curse

Post by Grandfather »

Perhaps if I change the terminology slightly it will help give insight and you can help me along my journey for answers.

Instead of call for information on "Generational Curses" I should ask for information on "generational strongholds" I've just recently read a piece by Beth Moore and here is what she had to say:
For instance, if a pollster took a census of the number of alcoholics in three generations of an alcoholic patriarch's family, the head count likely would be very high. Why? Because alcoholism was deposited in the family line. It came calling, and an unfortunate number of children and grandchildren answered the door.
Can you think of any negative traits or habits in your life that have been in your family line for generations? Perhaps you can identify negative patterns such as alcoholism, verbal or physical abuse, pornography, racism, bitterness, or fear. These areas of bondage are anything you may have learned environmentally, anything to which you may be genetically predisposed, or any binding influence passed down through other means. Whatever the bondage may be, the Lord wants to rebuild, restore, and renew these areas of devastation.
We must face generational strongholds head-on. If we don't, they can remain almost unrecognizable—but they don't remain benign. Family strongholds continue to be the seedbed for all sorts of destruction. Oftentimes we've grown up with these chains and they feel completely natural. We consider them part of our personality rather than a strangling yoke.
BTW - she does not believe in a Generational Curse in the traditional sense. What really caught my attention was the last two sentences.

Comments?



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Justaned
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 1938
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Re: Generational Curse

Post by Justaned »

Grandfather wrote:
Justaned wrote:
Grandfather wrote:Gentlemen,

This discussion has taken a rabbit trail from what I was intending. It's apparent to me that no one has any real information on "generational curses" or if they do they aren't sharing. What has been shared is a passing knowledge that seems to be gather from an overheard conversation and a general opinion. There is nothing wrong with not being familiar, but I was looking for a deeper insight.

Thank you for at least attempting to answer my question.
Grandfather I think you are right we don't have much information on generational curses. Why? Because if we are in Christ was are NEW CREATIONS, the old things have passed away. A Christian is no longer under any curse.

Many Christians want to excuse their behavior as being a product of their upbringing, society, parental guidance and etc.

But that is nonsense we are New Creatures born anew in Christ. Our birth date in not when we physically came into this world but rather the day we were born again.

Sadly too many try to hold to the old man, the old creation and often they try to use this to excuse their lifestyle.
Justaned,

Had you taken the time to comprehend my opening post, you would have seen that I don't believe in the traditional "Generational Curse" for the very reason you mentioned. Yes, I too believe that often the idea of a "generational curse" is used to avoid the personal responsibility factor. However, the "new creature" response seems to be the same avoidance of responsibility from the ministry perspective.
I think I comprehended your opening post and I tend to agree both positions can be used to avoid responsibility.

Grandfather wrote: While indeed we are "new creatures", I'm certain that we don't understand what that really means and what it applies to. The same person that wrote 2 Cor 5:17 also wrote Romans 12:2 where he say we need to RENEW our minds. If our minds are "a new creature" then, what is there to renew?
I think many Christians are slow to internalize 2 Cor 5:17 so many are even slower to internalize Romans 12:2
Grandfather wrote: Now, I do not mean that you and/or Rocky don't have information and insight that may help. I'm simply pointing out that neither of you appear to be aware of the many different teaches that fall under the banner of "Generational Curses".
I'm not expert on what others are teaching but I have heard most of them. However being a pastor I often find myself where the rubber meets the road. Those situations are far removed from writing a book or speaking on the subject. Often it is dealing with a person that is destroyed for one reason or another and must be given hope but not excuses.


Grandfather wrote: As for me, I see too many believers struggling to be free of that same (or very similar) sins that beset their parents and grandparents, even when all the generations served the Lord. Is it a curse? Not in the traditional sense. Is it learned behavior? I'm not sure. Is it a coping mechanism that covers some brokeness? That's another possibility. Could it be all of the above? Maybe. But what is hard to deny are the statistics - if your parents were divorced, you are at a higher likelihood for divorce. If there was a problem with alcoholism, the same is true. If there was a struggle with pornography, it is likely to be repeated. If there was spouse abuse, it is likely to continue. I've read the studies and I've seen them in my office.
I am in agreement with you on this .
Grandfather wrote: What I do know is that giving people the scriptures that have been sited in this brief discussion does little to offer help to those who are in this predicament. They offer hope, but because deliverance doesn't come, that other scripture is also true... Hope deferred makes a heart sick... and often they resign themselves to be trapped, fighting the fight that Paul describes in Romans 7, another discussion on this forum.

I do hope each of you will take some time, research the full spectrum of this subject and help me help others walk free in Christ.
I tend to agree just citing a scripture as if a magic incantation is not the answer. We must work with the person and help them internalize the truth.

I was counseling a young man (late 20's) that was abused by his father, he was dealing with real hatred, anger and a desire for vengeance. His life was a wreak he couldn't hold a job, faced many addictions, had no personal relationship with others, a true ship wreak.

I keep bringing him back to 2 Cor 5:17 asking him to explain how if he was in fact a Christian that this fit into his situation. He experienced anger, frustration, hopelessness and more anger but suddenly he internalized it and it was like the light went on. He jumped up and said he had to do something and asked if it was alright if he returned later. I was not sure what to say, I wasn't sure what had just happened. I was a little worried he might be going after a gun or something.

What I didn't know at the time was he finally took hold of 2 Cor 5:17 and committed it to his life. He had left my office and went straight to his fathers house. I don't know what all was said but I know the abuse inflicted on this man by his father was never going to be able to steal this man's hope, peace and self esteem again.

He left and came back a new person.

This was the same man that could moments before was a mess jobless,hopeless and addicted to every addiction. He had gone through every recovery program that I know of, was in weekly counseling and getting worst by the day. But when he walked back in my office he was a new creation. Ever since he has never had any further problems with addiction, with holding a job or having meaningful personal relationships. He went from a downtrodden defeated withering mess to a mighty man servant of the Lord God boldly proclaiming that victory is found in Christ.
Last edited by Justaned on Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.



titus213
Do Good to Them that Hate You
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Re: Generational Curse

Post by titus213 »

Nonsense. Beth Moore would not have spoken that way a few short years ago. But now she has to market herself to a certain segment of believers who are gullible to such drivel. Alcoholism being "deposited" in a family line? Please! Just more excuse forpeople to avoid personal responsibility.



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