Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Pastor taking anti-depressants

[scottae316]

In my college Psychology class I was taught that psychology was built upon the theory of evolution. Not sure why Christians would want to utilize a method whose foundation is built on an ungodly scientific theory.

Interesting, in my college Psychology class we were taught that there are several different "schools" of Psychology that are based on different "assumptions about humans and the causes of the "disorders" or problems. These different schools varied greatly and are often at odds with each other so how could all Psychology be based on evolution?

Let me state that I have a problem with the basic assumption of Psychology that humans only consist of two parts, physical and mental, not acknowledging the spiritual part of humans. This is the major reason why Psychology often fails in treating people.

[victoryword]

In my college Psychology class I was taught that psychology was built upon the theory of evolution. Not sure why Christians would want to utilize a method whose foundation is built on an ungodly scientific theory.

Interesting, in my college Psychology class we were taught that there are several different "schools" of Psychology that are based on different "assumptions about humans and the causes of the "disorders" or problems. These different schools varied greatly and are often at odds with each other so how could all Psychology be based on evolution?

Let me state that I have a problem with the basic assumption of Psychology that humans only consist of two parts, physical and mental, not acknowledging the spiritual part of humans. This is the major reason why Psychology often fails in treating people.

Certainly different schools of psychology developed later but everything has a point of origin. One really does not even have to go to college to learn that with the internet available giving us access to all kind of history.

[bibleman]

Well perhaps not it seems that definitions come and go around here. What is the difference?

Ed

Here is a good article that tells the difference by your hero John MacArthur.

Is there any difference between biblical counseling and Christian psychology or Christian counseling?

MacArthur, John, F., Jr, Wayne A. Mack

At a superficial glance, it would appear that a biblical counselor and a psychotherapist who is a Christian do many of the same things. Both converse with people; both care about people; both get to know people; both are interested in motivation, thoughts, emotions, and behavior; both explore the various pressures in a person’s situation; both give feedback; perhaps both talk about Jesus or a passage of Scripture. So how do they differ? To understand how Christianized psychotherapy differs from biblical counseling it is necessary to look closely at what each practices and teaches. Here are some of the distinctives of each.

Perspective of the Bible and its contribution to counseling. Most Christian psychologists view the Bible as an inspirational resource, but their basic system of counseling, both theory and methods, is transferred unaltered from secular psychology. Most are frankly and self-consciously eclectic, picking and choosing theories and techniques according to personal preference. In contrast, biblical counselors follow the Bible’s view of itself as the source of a comprehensive and detailed approach to understanding and counseling people (2 Tim. 3:15–17; 2 Pet. 1:4).Some Christian psychotherapists use few Scriptures; others use many. But frequency of citation is much less important than the way passages are used—or misused—and in the vast majority of cases the passages cited are completely misused. There is a dearth of contextualized exegesis (a critical interpretation of a text) and an abundance of eisegesis (interpreting a text by reading one’s own ideas into it). Biblical counseling is committed to letting God speak for Himself through His Word, and to handling the Word of Truth rightly (2 Tim. 2:15).

Perspective of God. There are many aspects of God that Christian psychologists routinely ignore. In particular, His sovereignty, holiness, justice, kingly authority, and power are virtually unmentioned. The fatherly love of God is the great theme of these psychotherapists, but detached from the entirety of who God is, this love becomes the unconditional positive regard of a great therapist in the sky, indistinguishable from classic liberal theology. Biblical counseling follows the Bible and seeks to minister the love of the true and living God, whose love deals with sin and produces obedience (1 John).

Perspective of human nature and motivation. Almost every Christian psychologist espouses some variety of need theory. Needs for self-esteem, for love and acceptance, and for significance tend to dominate. If these needs are met, it is believed that people will be happy, kind and moral; if not met, people will be miserable, hateful, and immoral. Christian psychologists borrow their motivation theory directly from humanistic psychology. Scripture flatly opposes such need theories because it teaches that sinful human motivation roots in various cravings and lusts (Gal. 5:16–24, Eph. 2:3; James 1:14–16; 3:13–4:12). Scripture teaches that God changes our desires and that godly motivation is rooted in the desire for God and godliness. If people crave self-esteem, love, and significance, they will be happy if they get it and miserable if they don’t, but they will remain self-centered in either case. On the other hand, if people desire God (Ps. 42:1f; 73:25), God’s kingdom (Matt. 6:9–13; 6:33; 13:45f), godly wisdom (Prov. 3:15; 2 Tim. 2:22), and resurrection glory (Rom. 8:18–25), they will be satisfied, joyous, obedient, and profitable servants of God.

Perspective of the gospel. For most Christian psychologists, Jesus Christ is the meeter of built-in psychic needs and the healer of psychic wounds. The love of God at the cross simply portrays how valuable one is to God in order to boost self-esteem and to meet the need to be loved. But in the Bible, Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God crucified in the place of sinners. The love of God actually demolishes self-esteem and the lust for self-esteem. It produces, instead, a great and grateful esteem for the Son of God, who loved us and gave His life for us—the Lamb of God who alone is worthy. The love of God does not meet our lust to be loved as we are. It demolishes that deluded craving in order to love us despite who we are and to teach us to love God and neighbor (1 John 4:7–5:3).

Perspective of counseling. Christian psychologists tend to view counseling the same way secular psychologists view it: as a professional activity without any necessary connection to the Church of Jesus Christ. A client with a felt-need engages a professional for help in attaining goals of personal adjustment, emotional happiness, stability, self-fulfillment, and the like. But biblical counselors follow the Bible and view counseling as a pastoral activity. Their counseling aims at progressive sanctification and must communicate the true contents of Scripture. Biblical counseling connects logically and structurally to worship, discipleship, preaching, pastoral oversight, use of gifts, church discipline, and other aspects of life in the body of Christ. (David Powlison)

MacArthur, John, F., Jr, Wayne A. Mack, and Master's College. Introduction to Biblical Counseling : Basic Guide to the Principles and Practice of Counseling. Electronic ed., Page 362. Dallas, TX: Word Pub., 1997, c1994. http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/a ... eling.html

Why on earth would you quote MacArthur who you have previously stated is at the same level as the village idiot?

However if you accept his definitions then yes I do know the difference between Christian Counseling and Biblical Counseling. And just so you know there are situations and conditions that allow the two to blend and it is nearly impossible to separate the two with that happens.

I still say there are conditions that while we wait for God to heal them we can offer immediate relief using medication. Also if someone tries to help a person in depression without first ruling out such things as physical causes like tumors in certain areas of the brain that can cause depression they are little more than someone that throws bones on the floor and dances around them.

Hi Ed,

I quoted MacArthur because I knew that you liked him almost as much as you like the Pope! (smile)

Above you said: "However if you accept his definitions then yes I do know the difference between Christian Counseling and Biblical Counseling. And just so you know there are situations and conditions that allow the two to blend and it is nearly impossible to separate the two with that happens."

When you say there are situations that allow the two to blend??? Then no you still don't know the difference.

[Justaned]

In my college Psychology class I was taught that psychology was built upon the theory of evolution. Not sure why Christians would want to utilize a method whose foundation is built on an ungodly scientific theory.

Interesting, in my college Psychology class we were taught that there are several different "schools" of Psychology that are based on different "assumptions about humans and the causes of the "disorders" or problems. These different schools varied greatly and are often at odds with each other so how could all Psychology be based on evolution?

Let me state that I have a problem with the basic assumption of Psychology that humans only consist of two parts, physical and mental, not acknowledging the spiritual part of humans. This is the major reason why Psychology often fails in treating people.

I totally agree I was going to mention the various different schools of Psychology and Psychiatry but I was getting lost in the connection Victorywood was making as it was, I was afraid of opening another door for him to spin up on.

[Justaned]

In my college Psychology class I was taught that psychology was built upon the theory of evolution. Not sure why Christians would want to utilize a method whose foundation is built on an ungodly scientific theory.

Interesting, in my college Psychology class we were taught that there are several different "schools" of Psychology that are based on different "assumptions about humans and the causes of the "disorders" or problems. These different schools varied greatly and are often at odds with each other so how could all Psychology be based on evolution?

Let me state that I have a problem with the basic assumption of Psychology that humans only consist of two parts, physical and mental, not acknowledging the spiritual part of humans. This is the major reason why Psychology often fails in treating people.

Certainly different schools of psychology developed later but everything has a point of origin. One really does not even have to go to college to learn that with the internet available giving us access to all kind of history.

Oh wow!!!!

[Justaned]

Well perhaps not it seems that definitions come and go around here. What is the difference?

Ed

Here is a good article that tells the difference by your hero John MacArthur.

Is there any difference between biblical counseling and Christian psychology or Christian counseling?

MacArthur, John, F., Jr, Wayne A. Mack

At a superficial glance, it would appear that a biblical counselor and a psychotherapist who is a Christian do many of the same things. Both converse with people; both care about people; both get to know people; both are interested in motivation, thoughts, emotions, and behavior; both explore the various pressures in a person’s situation; both give feedback; perhaps both talk about Jesus or a passage of Scripture. So how do they differ? To understand how Christianized psychotherapy differs from biblical counseling it is necessary to look closely at what each practices and teaches. Here are some of the distinctives of each.

Perspective of the Bible and its contribution to counseling. Most Christian psychologists view the Bible as an inspirational resource, but their basic system of counseling, both theory and methods, is transferred unaltered from secular psychology. Most are frankly and self-consciously eclectic, picking and choosing theories and techniques according to personal preference. In contrast, biblical counselors follow the Bible’s view of itself as the source of a comprehensive and detailed approach to understanding and counseling people (2 Tim. 3:15–17; 2 Pet. 1:4).Some Christian psychotherapists use few Scriptures; others use many. But frequency of citation is much less important than the way passages are used—or misused—and in the vast majority of cases the passages cited are completely misused. There is a dearth of contextualized exegesis (a critical interpretation of a text) and an abundance of eisegesis (interpreting a text by reading one’s own ideas into it). Biblical counseling is committed to letting God speak for Himself through His Word, and to handling the Word of Truth rightly (2 Tim. 2:15).

Perspective of God. There are many aspects of God that Christian psychologists routinely ignore. In particular, His sovereignty, holiness, justice, kingly authority, and power are virtually unmentioned. The fatherly love of God is the great theme of these psychotherapists, but detached from the entirety of who God is, this love becomes the unconditional positive regard of a great therapist in the sky, indistinguishable from classic liberal theology. Biblical counseling follows the Bible and seeks to minister the love of the true and living God, whose love deals with sin and produces obedience (1 John).

Perspective of human nature and motivation. Almost every Christian psychologist espouses some variety of need theory. Needs for self-esteem, for love and acceptance, and for significance tend to dominate. If these needs are met, it is believed that people will be happy, kind and moral; if not met, people will be miserable, hateful, and immoral. Christian psychologists borrow their motivation theory directly from humanistic psychology. Scripture flatly opposes such need theories because it teaches that sinful human motivation roots in various cravings and lusts (Gal. 5:16–24, Eph. 2:3; James 1:14–16; 3:13–4:12). Scripture teaches that God changes our desires and that godly motivation is rooted in the desire for God and godliness. If people crave self-esteem, love, and significance, they will be happy if they get it and miserable if they don’t, but they will remain self-centered in either case. On the other hand, if people desire God (Ps. 42:1f; 73:25), God’s kingdom (Matt. 6:9–13; 6:33; 13:45f), godly wisdom (Prov. 3:15; 2 Tim. 2:22), and resurrection glory (Rom. 8:18–25), they will be satisfied, joyous, obedient, and profitable servants of God.

Perspective of the gospel. For most Christian psychologists, Jesus Christ is the meeter of built-in psychic needs and the healer of psychic wounds. The love of God at the cross simply portrays how valuable one is to God in order to boost self-esteem and to meet the need to be loved. But in the Bible, Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God crucified in the place of sinners. The love of God actually demolishes self-esteem and the lust for self-esteem. It produces, instead, a great and grateful esteem for the Son of God, who loved us and gave His life for us—the Lamb of God who alone is worthy. The love of God does not meet our lust to be loved as we are. It demolishes that deluded craving in order to love us despite who we are and to teach us to love God and neighbor (1 John 4:7–5:3).

Perspective of counseling. Christian psychologists tend to view counseling the same way secular psychologists view it: as a professional activity without any necessary connection to the Church of Jesus Christ. A client with a felt-need engages a professional for help in attaining goals of personal adjustment, emotional happiness, stability, self-fulfillment, and the like. But biblical counselors follow the Bible and view counseling as a pastoral activity. Their counseling aims at progressive sanctification and must communicate the true contents of Scripture. Biblical counseling connects logically and structurally to worship, discipleship, preaching, pastoral oversight, use of gifts, church discipline, and other aspects of life in the body of Christ. (David Powlison)

MacArthur, John, F., Jr, Wayne A. Mack, and Master's College. Introduction to Biblical Counseling : Basic Guide to the Principles and Practice of Counseling. Electronic ed., Page 362. Dallas, TX: Word Pub., 1997, c1994. http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/a ... eling.html

Why on earth would you quote MacArthur who you have previously stated is at the same level as the village idiot?

However if you accept his definitions then yes I do know the difference between Christian Counseling and Biblical Counseling. And just so you know there are situations and conditions that allow the two to blend and it is nearly impossible to separate the two with that happens.

I still say there are conditions that while we wait for God to heal them we can offer immediate relief using medication. Also if someone tries to help a person in depression without first ruling out such things as physical causes like tumors in certain areas of the brain that can cause depression they are little more than someone that throws bones on the floor and dances around them.

Hi Ed,

I quoted MacArthur because I knew that you liked him almost as much as you like the Pope! (smile)

Above you said: "However if you accept his definitions then yes I do know the difference between Christian Counseling and Biblical Counseling. And just so you know there are situations and conditions that allow the two to blend and it is nearly impossible to separate the two with that happens."

When you say there are situations that allow the two to blend??? Then no you still don't know the difference.

Actually I do but I also have observed and know human nature and which one of us will say we can resist analyzing the another? In fact all of use a small amount of psychology every day in our dealings with people.
If we want people to agree with us we complement them, hold them up before others in a positive fashion, talk to them about subjects that they enjoy. Likewise if we want people to side with us we paint pictures of the adverse effects disagreeing will have on them.
When you preach you use a portion of psychology to catch and hold people's attention, to make the sermon interesting and meaningful to them. (Am told in your case a very small amount ... boring! )

So to deny there isn't a merging of psychology and Biblical counseling is being less that truthful.

And it takes an experienced and well trained biblical counselor to know how not to slip into that mode as to prevent adverse effects.

[bibleman]

Actually I do but I also have observed and know human nature and which one of us will say we can resist analyzing the another? In fact all of use a small amount of psychology every day in our dealings with people.
If we want people to agree with us we complement them, hold them up before others in a positive fashion, talk to them about subjects that they enjoy. Likewise if we want people to side with us we paint pictures of the adverse effects disagreeing will have on them.
When you preach you use a portion of psychology to catch and hold people's attention, to make the sermon interesting and meaningful to them. (Am told in your case a very small amount ... boring! )

So to deny there isn't a merging of psychology and Biblical counseling is being less that truthful.

And it takes an experienced and well trained biblical counselor to know how not to slip into that mode as to prevent adverse effects.

Hi Ed,

You won't see it until you understand Biblical Counseling.

BUT you would NEVER find a true Biblical Counselor that would ever consider "a merging of psychology and Biblical counseling" as you say.

Above you said: "If we want people to agree with us we complement them, hold them up before others in a positive fashion, talk to them about subjects that they enjoy."

Hum... You must not want any of us to agree with you!

[Justaned]

In my college Psychology class I was taught that psychology was built upon the theory of evolution. Not sure why Christians would want to utilize a method whose foundation is built on an ungodly scientific theory.

Interesting, in my college Psychology class we were taught that there are several different "schools" of Psychology that are based on different "assumptions about humans and the causes of the "disorders" or problems. These different schools varied greatly and are often at odds with each other so how could all Psychology be based on evolution?

Let me state that I have a problem with the basic assumption of Psychology that humans only consist of two parts, physical and mental, not acknowledging the spiritual part of humans. This is the major reason why Psychology often fails in treating people.

Certainly different schools of psychology developed later but everything has a point of origin. One really does not even have to go to college to learn that with the internet available giving us access to all kind of history.

I don't know what Internet site you are reading but you need to stop. Psychology has been in existence since the beginning of time and the formal study of it dates back to the ancient Greeks.

Before you say anymore please read http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/HomePage ... istory.htm

[victoryword]

I really am not seeing how having different schools of psychology refutes the fact that psychology overall is a "science" built upon evolutionary theories. That's like saying that Christianity does not have its origins in Christ because there are numerous denominations and schools of theological thought.

Do you guys want to hold onto to psychology that bad or are you just wanting to win a debate by any means? I mean, this is ridiculous. Not even sure why I am wasting my time responding to an asinine notion.

[Justaned]

I really am not seeing how having different schools of psychology refutes the fact that psychology overall is a "science" built upon evolutionary theories. That's like saying that Christianity does not have its origins in Christ because there are numerous denominations and schools of theological thought.

Do you guys want to hold onto to psychology that bad or are you just wanting to win a debate by any means? I mean, this is ridiculous. Not even sure why I am wasting my time responding to an asinine notion.

I am not holding on to any thing. I don't even like clinical psychology but I dislike ignorance even more. Psychology is the study of the mind and how various stimuli effect it. It also goes into the study of emotions, cognitive thought, reasoning, sub conscious thought and a few others. It existed long before evolution was nightmare in Darwin's head.
Basic clinical psychology tries to identify the stimuli that makes a person react as they do and modify that reaction to future stimuli.

In most cases it is the people's sin nature and if you deal with that you have solved the problem however that is considered biblical counseling rather psychology. That said there is still many cases where physical situations have manifested symptoms that look to be mental but are in fact a medical problem. Again God through his doctors has provided medicines that help various situations while a full healing is manifested in the person.

So to say no one with depression should take a medicine is akin to saying no one with diabetes should take medicine to control their sugar. Or no one should have a blood transfusion to replace the blood the lost. Or no one should take treatment for a cancer, heart attack, stroke, or one of the many other diseases we now have medicine to help treat.