Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Lucifer's fall in Eden

[Rocky]

Ray When do you believe Satan fell? Was he a falling being when he used the serpent to tempt Eve in the garden? Was it the day before he tempted Eve. or which of the 6 days of creation do you believe Satan fell?

[Ray]

Ray When do you believe Satan fell? Was he a falling being when he used the serpent to tempt Eve in the garden? Was it the day before he tempted Eve. or which of the 6 days of creation do you believe Satan fell?

Rocky,
I believe satan is the serpent who tempted Eve in the Garden. I believe he fell the day he caused mankind to fall.

Why is it thought throughout history that this tempter in Eden was a reptile?

There was in Eden (this Garden created for mankind) an anointed cherub who covereth. ("covereth" in Hebrew=cakak, to hedge, to fence about, shut in). What was this cherub fencing in, shutting in or hedging about?

He was in fact at the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil. It is a fact that GOD did not want mankind to partake of this tree.
Question :
What did GOD do when HE didn't want mankind to partake of The Tree Of Life ?

This anointed cherub was extremely wise, Beautiful, and perfect in his ways, And was what Moses called the serpent because of his deception.

[victoryword]

Victoryword,

Above you wrote:

"Satan falling after the six day creation makes no logical sense. In his fall he was able to convince a number of angels to follow him. How can someone incite a rebellion against God within a 24 hour period. From the human perspective it takes months-years to convince people that they need to rebel, and that is usually against a corrupt government. Now you think about the centuries that all of these angels spent under the most kind, benevolent, unselfish loving governement that ever existed. How could you convince them to rebel against that government in one day?

Look at a backslidden Christian. Satan is not able to convince most Christians to turn away from God. It takes a series of lies and plenty of time to get the thought processes to act against God. My experience is that this does not happen in a 24 hour period."

Lucifer as a Cherub in the Garden of Eden was appointed by THE MOST HIGH given Great Power and Authority as is given in Ezek 28 and Luke 4. Now this being a Fact how do you know that he would have had to convince a number of angels to follow him and not that 1/3 of the angels was appointed to him ?

How long do you believe it took Lucifer to persuade GOD'S Greatest Creation to disobey GOD and follow his lead into the Fall of mankind ?

Ray, are you saying that angels have no free-will and would naturally fall only because Lucifer fell? This certainly would be an inditement on God's character to condemn them to eternal tormenet if they did not make a free decision to follow Lucifer. If they did make a free decision to follow Lucifer then they would have needed to be persuaded to do so. If I am in the military and I am "appointed" to a unit but the unit commander decides to commit a mutiny against the United States I don't have to join the mutiny just because I am appointed to that unit. I still can make a decision.

I would say that if one has been spending centuries worshipping a loving, wonderful, kind God then it would take more than a day to convince them that He was anything other than what He revealed Himself to be. To say how long it takes is speculation, but there is much more Biblical proof, linguistic, archealogical, and moral evidence for the fall of Lucifer between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 than there is for the stuff put forth by YEC which does not make any common sense and cannot be reconciled with God's character of love.

[Ironman]

Ray When do you believe Satan fell? Was he a falling being when he used the serpent to tempt Eve in the garden? Was it the day before he tempted Eve. or which of the 6 days of creation do you believe Satan fell?

Rocky,
I believe satan is the serpent who tempted Eve in the Garden. I believe he fell the day he caused mankind to fall.

Why is it thought throughout history that this tempter in Eden was a reptile?

There was in Eden (this Garden created for mankind) an anointed cherub who covereth. ("covereth" in Hebrew=cakak, to hedge, to fence about, shut in). What was this cherub fencing in, shutting in or hedging about?

He was in fact at the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil. It is a fact that GOD did not want mankind to partake of this tree.
Question :
What did GOD do when HE didn't want mankind to partake of The Tree Of Life ?

This anointed cherub was extremely wise, Beautiful, and perfect in his ways, And was what Moses called the serpent because of his deception.

The serpent was a created creature who could walk and speak, and Lucifer used this creature to talk Eve into disbelieving God. Notice the serpent never went straight to Adam, who was charged with looking after Eve and the Earth? The serpent was aquainted with Eve and so Lucifer used the highest creature who lived with Adam and Eve before the fall.

Gen. 3:1, "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea,1 hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?"

God cursed this creature forever because he was in league with lucifer to dethrone Adam. God took away his speech and his ability to walk and this creature will crawl upon the ground forever, (Isa. 65:25; 2 Cor. 11:3; 1 Tim. 2:14).

Gen. 3:14, "14, ¶ And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:"

When God restores the Earth to its original state before Adams rebelling, the serpent will remain cursed forever, even during the Millennium when all curses are removed from all other animals (Isa. 65:25.

[Rocky]

Ray When do you believe Satan fell? Was he a falling being when he used the serpent to tempt Eve in the garden? Was it the day before he tempted Eve. or which of the 6 days of creation do you believe Satan fell?

Rocky,
I believe satan is the serpent who tempted Eve in the Garden. I believe he fell the day he caused mankind to fall.

Why is it thought throughout history that this tempter in Eden was a reptile?

There was in Eden (this Garden created for mankind) an anointed cherub who covereth. ("covereth" in Hebrew=cakak, to hedge, to fence about, shut in). What was this cherub fencing in, shutting in or hedging about?

He was in fact at the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil. It is a fact that GOD did not want mankind to partake of this tree.
Question :
What did GOD do when HE didn't want mankind to partake of The Tree Of Life ?

This anointed cherub was extremely wise, Beautiful, and perfect in his ways, And was what Moses called the serpent because of his deception.

The serpent was a created creature who could walk and speak, and Lucifer used this creature to talk Eve into disbelieving God. Notice the serpent never went straight to Adam, who was charged with looking after Eve and the Earth? The serpent was aquainted with Eve and so Lucifer used the highest creature who lived with Adam and Eve before the fall.

Gen. 3:1, "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea,1 hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?"

God cursed this creature forever because he was in league with lucifer to dethrone Adam. God took away his speech and his ability to walk and this creature will crawl upon the ground forever, (Isa. 65:25; 2 Cor. 11:3; 1 Tim. 2:14).

Gen. 3:14, "14, ¶ And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:"

When God restores the Earth to its original state before Adams rebelling, the serpent will remain cursed forever, even during the Millennium when all curses are removed from all other animals (Isa. 65:25.

Awesome Ironman, I was going to point out the same stuff you did here.. Ray just take the bible for what it says, it does help not to over allegoricallize(<not sure if I spelled that right) the scriptures. This is helped me a lot when it comes to the bible..

[Ironman]

Ray When do you believe Satan fell? Was he a falling being when he used the serpent to tempt Eve in the garden? Was it the day before he tempted Eve. or which of the 6 days of creation do you believe Satan fell?

Hi Rocky.

If Ray believes Scripture like he says he would like to and or does then he will come to realize that Lucifer was a fallen creature long before he came into Adams garden.

People get confused with the fact that there is an Eden in Heaven where God lives, and Lucifer was allowed to be there with God before he fell!

Ezek. 28: 13, Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14, Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15, Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

After the fall of Lucifer, Isiah 14:12," How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

God also created a perfect place, a paradise, called it Eden upon the newly re-created Earth for man!

Gen. 2:8; "And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed."

This, Gen. 2:8, the second Eden, is the Eden Satan, a fallen creature entered to dupe Adam out of his authority over the earth that God had given Adam, not God's Eden (Ezek. 28:13).

[Justaned]

I think the problem is Ray's post are being delayed and then posting in the time slot the were originally created. That means there can be a number of posts that show up before Ray's do and often Ray's post is shuffled into a position where we tend to miss them. I wish Bibleman would not moderate Ray and Billy's post causing the delay. Of if he must change the time to they post exactly at the current time not their create time which could be much earlier which shuffles them back in the pack.

[Rocky]

I think the problem is Ray's post are being delayed and then posting in the time slot the were originally created. That means there can be a number of posts that show up before Ray's do and often Ray's post is shuffled into a position where we tend to miss them. I wish Bibleman would not moderate Ray and Billy's post causing the delay. Of if he must change the time to they post exactly at the current time not their create time which could be much earlier which shuffles them back in the pack.

Yeah I have noticed that as well