Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Living free from sin while the body continues to sin!

[bibleman]

VI. Is Eternal Life an Eternal Unconditional Possession Now?

Unconditional security does not deal with sin in man, either in theory or in experience. Thus it ignores the greatest enemy of God, because sin is the whole reason for man's fall and separation from God. The advocates of unconditional security teach that a man can still sin and keep saved, which, if true, would mean that the atonement does nothing to change either the condition of the person or his attitude toward God. This position would make the atonement accomplish nothing, for the sinner is just as sinful and as lost in sin after salvation as he was before the atonement was made for man to be saved. What good is redemption if it does not stop sin? If man can sin and still be in harmony with God, then sin does not cause him to be out of harmony with God to begin with. Such teaching makes salvation and the atonement pure nonsense. On the other hand, if sin separates from God, the one sinning must stop by being saved from it before he can be in union with God.

We know that when a man is really born again a real change takes place in his life, a change which saves from all sin (2 Cor. 5:17; 1 Jn. 1:7-9). He must give up sin and take a different attitude toward sin and God. Salvation deals with sin, or it is worthless. It deals with sin, not in theory but in experience, for we know that when a person backslides he goes back into sin and loses that change that the new birth wrought in his life. What made the change in his life? It certainly would have to be the life of God. If men lose this change in their lives when they backslide then they lose the life of God. It is clear from Scripture that saved men who sin do, in fact, lose the life of God, which is eternal life.

The only way men try to get around these plain facts is to argue that it is the body that sins and not the soul and spirit, and this is the position that “false securityites”hold. But this position does not help them out of their dilemma. They still have the same principle to face. If it is only the body that sins, it is bound to be the body that sinned before salvation because the actions and results of sin are the same as before. If the body could sin after salvation and continue to be saved, then man could not have become unsaved to begin with, so redemption is worthless. The Bible teaches that it is the soul that sins, as proved in Point IV above. There can be no such thing as the soul being saved and living free from sin while the body continues to live in sin. The following Scriptures prove that one must be holy and sinless in body as well as in soul and spirit (Rom. 6:6-23; 8:10-13; 1 Cor. 3:16-17; 6:13-20; 9:27; 2 Cor. 5:17; 7:1; 10:4-7; Phil. 1:20; Col. 2:11-12; Jas. 3:2-6). Note how holiness of "body" is emphasized in these passages. Note also how freedom from the works of "the flesh" is demanded of men in the following Scriptures if one is to be finally saved (Rom. 8:1-13; 13:14; 2 Cor. 7:1; 10:2-7; Gal. 5:13-24; 6:7-8; Eph. 2:1-10; Col. 2:11-12; 3:5-17; 1 Jn. 2:15-17; Jude 23).
Finis J. Dake, Eternal Security, WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 25.

[bibleman]

2 Timothy 3:1-5 (KJV) 1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.


2 Timothy 3:5 (AMP) 5 For [although] they hold a form of piety (true religion), they deny and reject and are strangers to the power of it [their conduct belies the genuineness of their profession]. Avoid [all] such people [turn away from them].

2 Timothy 3:5 (TEV) 5 they will hold to the outward form of our religion, but reject its real power. Keep away from such people.

[victoryword]

Let me quote a portion from an unpublished article I wrote concerning this:
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47. The born again Christian may sin in the body, but his or her spirit could never commit sin.
It has amazed me that Christians, including “Spirit-filled Full Gospel” Christians have accepted and promoted this lie of the Tempter. Unfortunately I have actually debated with people who believe this. A friend of mine told me that this teaching was being debated on the campus of a well known Charismatic Bible school.
This teaching can never be reconciled with Scripture and is actually a Gnostic heresy:

• Those who favored unnatural asceticism often fell into the opposite sin of shocking licentiousness. As body and soul are entirely distinct in their nature, the soul cannot be defiled by anything, however carnal and gross, that the body can do. Let the soul go its way on the wings of spiritual thought, and the body indulge its fleshly desires.12

Man is indeed a tripartite being but this does not mean that one part of man has no effect on his other parts. Paul wrote, “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Thess. 5:23). Every part of our being is to be sanctified together and preserved blameless. There is no such thing as the spirit and soul being sanctified while the body continues to indulge. What we allow to happen to one will effect the others. Again Paul writes:

• Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit (1 Cor. 6:15-17).

What we do in the flesh most certainly will effect our spirit. This is why Paul would say, “Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God” (2 Cor. 7:1). We cannot perfect holiness in the fear of God unless both spirit and body is involved in the process. Do not be deceived by this utter deception of the Tempter as so many have.

Notes:
12. Bromiley, Geoffrey W. International Standard Bible Encyclopedia: E-J (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1982), p. 487

[branham1965]

awesome posts....Bibleman and Troy.

[victoryword]

Thanks Billy Jack

[Justaned]

Let me quote a portion from an unpublished article I wrote concerning this:
============================================================================

47. The born again Christian may sin in the body, but his or her spirit could never commit sin.

I have never heard that quote who made it? That is without a doubt the dumbest thing anyone has ever said. So I would like to know who said it. So I can read what they said in context to see if they are really that stupid.

[victoryword]

It was a teaching that was propagated a lot on ChristianForums.com in their Word of Faith forum. I was told that this was a hot subject in a well known Charismatic Bible school. Not sure if any well known minister has actually advocated it. However, a lie doesn't need a famous preacher to spread like the cancer that this one did.

[Ironman]

Matt. 26: 41, "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak." (I am weak as I pray ever day, God forgive me in the Name of Jesus!

Mark 14: 38, "Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak." honestly, without even realising it, I sin every day, God forgive me! Every where one turns these days, TEMPTATION!

Romans 7:4-25, This I feel is me, I too am carnal,

14, For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15, For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16, If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17, Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18, For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19, For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20, Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21, I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22, For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23, But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24, O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body5 of this death?
25, I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

[Justaned]

It was a teaching that was propagated a lot on ChristianForums.com in their Word of Faith forum. I was told that this was a hot subject in a well known Charismatic Bible school. Not sure if any well known minister has actually advocated it. However, a lie doesn't need a famous preacher to spread like the cancer that this one did.

I agree. I had just never heard it before and I wondered if someone that should know the difference between false theology and truth was making the claim. I agree it is someone that doesn't know a thing about Christian Theology.
They probably wouldn't get out the way of a train if a non WOF'er told them it was coming.