Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ GOD IS IN CONTROL

[Rocky]

Ed, I get what you are saying and I do agree with you for the most part. I think you get accused of being a Calvinist because of the way you word things. I do not believe you are a Calvinist, But sometimes it seems like you double talk and I know you don't mean to. Leon is right about how God has chosen to limit himself to adhere to man's free will. I think that is what you keep getting baffled about. But this is a fact in scripture. But, also God does promise divine providence, protection and provision. I think you may want to study Dake's take on God's omniscients and God's omnipotence, Dake's approach to this is very biblical.

[Justaned]

Ed, I get what you are saying and I do agree with you for the most part. I think you get accused of being a Calvinist because of the way you word things. I do not believe you are a Calvinist, But sometimes it seems like you double talk and I know you don't mean to. Leon is right about how God has chosen to limit himself to adhere to man's free will. I think that is what you keep getting baffled about. But this is a fact in scripture. But, also God does promise divine providence, protection and provision. I think you may want to study Dake's take on God's omniscients and God's omnipotence, Dake's approach to this is very biblical.

Rocky
You say I get baffled about God allowing man to have free will. How? I have always said God gives man free will. So I don't understand what you see that makes you think it baffles me.

I appear to double talk as you say because I know Leon will use my words to attack everything I say just to get me to respond which usually results in a boohah. Leon thrives on this because it increases reader interest in the forum. If everyone agreed all the time this forum would not be read in a month.

So in answer to your question I not double talking I trying to make sure I cover everything I can think of so Leon can't take something I said convolute it and make me look like the heretic. He still tries but now he must openly lie to do it.

[victoryword]

I pray because I was commanded to. I pray because God told us even though He knows our need God still requires us to come to Him in prayer and to ask for it. I pray not my will but God's will be done. I pray that I may be strengthen by the Holy Spirit to resist temptation.

That is EXACTLY the response I usually get from Calvinists on the subject of prayer. What a pitiful reason to pray only because you were commanded to do so. I am commanded to love God. Do you think that this commandment by itself makes me love Him? I love God not because He commanded me to but because I have come to know HIm and He is easy to love when you know Him. Oh how pitiful to do things only because we're commanded. Join the Pharisees.

That is not true God often intervenes without first being asked.

• Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. (James 4:2)
  
  I am the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt: open thy mouth wide, and I will fill it. But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me. So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels. Oh that my people had hearkened unto me, and Israel had walked in my ways! I should soon have subdued their enemies, and turned my hand against their adversaries. (Psalm 81:10-14)

God did not intervene because people refused to ask.

No one especially me ever said or implied God controls every minute detail I have always asserted man has free will choice.

So you have never explained why you pray if you don't think God can do anything you simply told us how you respond to the question by asking another question.

I explained. You may not like my explanation but I explained it. Many people did not like Jesus' answers to their questions, especially when He answered questions with a question (see Matt. 21:23-27). So I am just following Jesus.

[bibleman]

Ed, I get what you are saying and I do agree with you for the most part. I think you get accused of being a Calvinist because of the way you word things. I do not believe you are a Calvinist, But sometimes it seems like you double talk and I know you don't mean to. Leon is right about how God has chosen to limit himself to adhere to man's free will. I think that is what you keep getting baffled about. But this is a fact in scripture. But, also God does promise divine providence, protection and provision. I think you may want to study Dake's take on God's omniscients and God's omnipotence, Dake's approach to this is very biblical.

Rocky
You say I get baffled about God allowing man to have free will. How? I have always said God gives man free will. So I don't understand what you see that makes you think it baffles me.

I appear to double talk as you say because I know Leon will use my words to attack everything I say just to get me to respond which usually results in a boohah. Leon thrives on this because it increases reader interest in the forum. If everyone agreed all the time this forum would not be read in a month.

So in answer to your question I not double talking I trying to make sure I cover everything I can think of so Leon can't take something I said convolute it and make me look like the heretic. He still tries but now he must openly lie to do it.

Hi Ed,

Above you said: "So in answer to your question I not double talking I trying to make sure I cover everything I can think of so Leon can't take something I said convolute it and make me look like the heretic. "

What about the things you can't think of. I guess you have never thought about that have you?

Please give it some thought. I would love the opportunity to convolute it.

[Justaned]

I pray because I was commanded to. I pray because God told us even though He knows our need God still requires us to come to Him in prayer and to ask for it. I pray not my will but God's will be done. I pray that I may be strengthen by the Holy Spirit to resist temptation.

That is EXACTLY the response I usually get from Calvinists on the subject of prayer. What a pitiful reason to pray only because you were commanded to do so. I am commanded to love God. Do you think that this commandment by itself makes me love Him? I love God not because He commanded me to but because I have come to know HIm and He is easy to love when you know Him. Oh how pitiful to do things only because we're commanded. Join the Pharisees.

Someone just asked why I seem be double talking this is a perfect example.

I responded to your question which was why pray if I believed God was in control and the answer was already on the way. I answered that God commanded us to pray even though God already knew of the need. My answer was then turned around to appear that the only reason I pray was because I was commanded to. To use this tactic of trying to change context shows a lack of integrity and lack of evidence to support ones position.

I often pray just to fellowship with God, just to love on HIm and to be loved by Him. However that answer would not have been in context to the question.
So I didn't see a need to include it.

[

That is not true God often intervenes without first being asked.

• Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. (James 4:2)
  
  I am the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt: open thy mouth wide, and I will fill it. But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me. So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels. Oh that my people had hearkened unto me, and Israel had walked in my ways! I should soon have subdued their enemies, and turned my hand against their adversaries. (Psalm 81:10-14)

God did not intervene because people refused to ask.

I never said God always intervenes without being asked. I said your statement "that God never intervenes without being asked", was not true. There are many examples of God's intervention without being asked.
Example He called Abraham and was never asked. God saved Noah and his family without being asked. God brought forth creation without being asked. God intervened in the lives of the Apostles without being asked. God saved Paul without Paul asking. In fact God saved each one of us without our asking.
God made both the old and new covenant without being asked.

No one especially me ever said or implied God controls every minute detail I have always asserted man has free will choice.

So you have never explained why you pray if you don't think God can do anything you simply told us how you respond to the question by asking another question.

I explained. You may not like my explanation but I explained it. Many people did not like Jesus' answers to their questions, especially when He answered questions with a question (see Matt. 21:23-27). So I am just following Jesus.

No you didn't explain you asked the question if God is in control why ask it will handled by God. Then you went off on a tangent.

Just answer this question, " If God isn't in control why do you pray for him to act on something"?

[Justaned]

Ed, I get what you are saying and I do agree with you for the most part. I think you get accused of being a Calvinist because of the way you word things. I do not believe you are a Calvinist, But sometimes it seems like you double talk and I know you don't mean to. Leon is right about how God has chosen to limit himself to adhere to man's free will. I think that is what you keep getting baffled about. But this is a fact in scripture. But, also God does promise divine providence, protection and provision. I think you may want to study Dake's take on God's omniscients and God's omnipotence, Dake's approach to this is very biblical.

Rocky
You say I get baffled about God allowing man to have free will. How? I have always said God gives man free will. So I don't understand what you see that makes you think it baffles me.

I appear to double talk as you say because I know Leon will use my words to attack everything I say just to get me to respond which usually results in a boohah. Leon thrives on this because it increases reader interest in the forum. If everyone agreed all the time this forum would not be read in a month.

So in answer to your question I not double talking I trying to make sure I cover everything I can think of so Leon can't take something I said convolute it and make me look like the heretic. He still tries but now he must openly lie to do it.

Hi Ed,

Above you said: "So in answer to your question I not double talking I trying to make sure I cover everything I can think of so Leon can't take something I said convolute it and make me look like the heretic. "

What about the things you can't think of. I guess you have never thought about that have you?

Please give it some thought. I would love the opportunity to convolute it.

You are truly a sick person.