Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ God will not allow difficulty unless He has a divine purpose

[Justaned]

Forgive me but I am a little bewildered by this forums general attitude toward God. It is as if many want to make God out to be little more than a spectator of human life.

By definition of God, speaks of an all powerful, all knowing, all seeing being that created the universe and can do with it what HE as God wants.

Instead many on this forum seem to view God as an spectacular inventor or creator but as one not able to effect the creation he once created.

I wonder then why pray? If you don't think God can not change our destiny, our fate, or the natural course of action, then why pray for His protection.

The example is given of a car going down the street and dog runs out in front of it. The driver of the car swerves the car loses control and hits a tree and the spouse in the car dies. I guess from injuries of hitting the tree.

This is called (use what ever term), Fate, chance, natural occurance, kismet, and (yes I know we all hate the word luck. And even some will contribute it to demons.

Now if the same thing happened the car hit the tree and both occupants were thrown free and thus unhurt, we would probably praise God for the miracle, saying no one should have been able to get out of the car alive let along out of that wreck without a scratch.

Why is it we can believe God can deliver someone from a wreck but is unable to prevent the accident in the first place?

Why do we believe God has power to protect us once the accident happened but that God can't prevent the dog from running onto the road to begin with?

Why do we believe God is powerless? Is it because if we acknowledge God's ability to prevent the accident but didn't as being a mean God?

How do we learn something is hot unless we feel the heat? Yet everytime God allows us to feel the heat of life we say God couldn't do anything, but the minute we get saved from being burned we declare God's mercy.

Can't God be in both? If not then I ask why pray.

[Watchman2013]

Good Morning, Justaned,

Excellent post, Sir.

When God is taken for granted, is shows a cavalier attitude that belittles Him, and shows no respect for Who and What He Is... If we don't at, the least, fear Him, we show no wisdom... Can it be, that in our high stress, out of control world, that only He who can Preserve us, has been so marginalized, that doom is inevitable?

Sure looks like it to me...

Without God, only bad is possible...

Maranatha

Watchman2013

[Justaned]

Good Morning, Justaned,

Excellent post, Sir.

When God is taken for granted, is shows a cavalier attitude that belittles Him, and shows no respect for Who and What He Is... If we don't at, the least, fear Him, we show no wisdom... Can it be, that in our high stress, out of control world, that only He who can Preserve us, has been so marginalized, that doom is inevitable?

Sure looks like it to me...

Without God, only bad is possible...

Maranatha

Watchman2013

Maybe it is a cavalier attitude as you mentioned but what I can't get past is all through the Old Testament we see God as a very active participant in the lives of His people. We see God lead them to victory but we also see God lead them into captivity and slavery. We see blessings and curses.

Yet in today's church of America people want to accept only good things from God and when something happens that they consider bad they call it everything from a natural occurence to the work of demons and as it was a total surprise to God.

There is a cavalier attitude toward God and I first realized when a I heard a person open in prayer with "hey Dude ...". I could not believe it. Needless to say I put as much distant between that person and myself as fast as I could. I didn't want to be near when that lightening bolt hit.

We have spent too much time talking down the meaning of the word fear in the term fear God.
Psalm 64:9 (NKJV)
9 All men shall fear, And shall declare the work of God; For they shall wisely consider His doing.

Psalm 89:7 (NKJV)
7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, And to be held in reverence by all those around Him.

Without the proper fear of God there isn't the reverence of God and therefore there isn't the holiness and obedience that God called us to.

[Rocky]

I believe God can work bad things out for good in this life. But you seem to forget, this world is cursed, bad things happen more so because of the fall, not because God allows it, Satan is the god of this world. Ok lets look at the world for a second. Unless you live in a fantasy world with unicorns and leprechauns we all can see that this world is a very dark place, so let me bring up something that does take place in this cursed world. A child gets raped murdered and dismembered. Is this part of God's divine Purpose? Or is the world just wicked? Or will rebellion and wickedness finally be done away with after the Millennial kingdom? I don't claim to know the mind of God, but what I do know is that this world is wicked and the curse of sin runs rampid up on it due to the fall. Evil vile things happen as a result of that fact. God will do away with this curse not now but after the millennial kingdom when all rebellion is done away with. That is what the gospel is all about, God is going to bring back Mankind and the world back to a sinless perfect state as it was before the fall through his son. Wow too early for this kind of thinking lol..

[Justaned]

I believe God can work bad things out for good in this life. But you seem to forget, this world is cursed, bad things happen more so because of the fall, not because God allows it, Satan is the god of this world. Ok lets look at the world for a second. Unless you live in a fantasy world with unicorns and leprechauns we all can see that this world is a very dark place, so let me bring up something that does take place in this cursed world. A child gets raped murdered and dismembered. Is this part of God's divine Purpose? Or is the world just wicked? Or will rebellion and wickedness finally be done away with after the Millennial kingdom? I don't claim to know the mind of God, but what I do know is that this world is wicked and the curse of sin runs rampid up on it due to the fall. Evil vile things happen as a result of that fact. God will do away with this curse not now but after the millennial kingdom when all rebellion is done away with. That is what the gospel is all about, God is going to bring back Mankind and the world back to a sinless perfect state as it was before the fall through his son. Wow too early for this kind of thinking lol..

Absolutely not! The rape, murder, mutilation of a child is not God's divine purpose nor did God cause it and I never suggestted it was.

I believe the act was conceived and commited by sinful nature of man.

But it did not surprise God. Also it only occured because God allowed it to occur and that God could and would use that vile act to accomplish His plan whatever that be.

And that is not saying God is an opportunist or anything like that.

I believe it is a case of Joseph and his brothers and Joseph's testimony speaking to his brothers, "what you meant for evil God meant for good.

[frad70]

Some things Good never really allowed (in the sense of wanting them to happen) but they did happen and the only reason He didn't stop them from happening was He could not stop them from happening without taking an individual's freedom (free will) away and/or because there was no intercessor.

The rich man going to Hell (the one who had that famous conversation with Lazarus). God didn't want him suffering there but because of his bad choice he ended up in the mess he himself had chosen. I guess Joel meant well but either he wasn't very clear about what he meant or the context of the quote explains it. And even if he made a mistake he still is a great minister of the Gospel and worth listening to.

[Justaned]

Some things Good never really allowed (in the sense of wanting them to happen) but they did happen and the only reason He didn't stop them from happening was He could not stop them from happening without taking an individual's freedom (free will) away and/or because there was no intercessor.

The rich man going to Hell (the one who had that famous conversation with Lazarus). God didn't want him suffering there but because of his bad choice he ended up in the mess he himself had chosen. I guess Joel meant well but either he wasn't very clear about what he meant or the context of the quote explains it. And even if he made a mistake he still is a great minister of the Gospel and worth listening to.

What you are talking about is consequences of our decisions. But you are wrong God could change those consequences and often does by not allowing the rich man to die before he got saved.

The fact the rich man died and went to hell was the result or consequence of his decision not to follow God. However that consequence could have been changed by God at any point up to and including the time of the man's death.

[frad70]

I don't see God as Someone who could prolong someone's life so s/he could be saved and not doing it only because He didn't want to, I hope you agree. My Bible says He doesn't want anyone to perish.

[Justaned]

I don't see God as being able to prolong someone's life so s/he could be saved and not doing it, I hope you agree. My Bible says He doesn't want anyone to perish.

Who holds the keys of death and hades? Is it not Jesus? Rev 1:18
What do you think holding the keys means?

[frad70]

I don't see God as being able to prolong someone's life so s/he could be saved and not doing it, I hope you agree. My Bible says He doesn't want anyone to perish.

Who holds the keys of death and hades? Is it not Jesus? Rev 1:18
What do you think holding the keys means?

He conquered both. Now He shares his authority over death with us. Paul said it was up to him to choose whether he wants to stay or go (to Heaven). If God can keep sb alive until s/he gets saved but doesn't do it because He doesn't want to He is not Love. That's basically the same heresy John Calvin promoted. The guy had a very twisted thinking being co-responsible for murdering Servet. I don't think I'll ever read anything by Calvin as I would risk being exposed to some real brown stinking and sticky stuff he promoted - do you guys agree?