Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Strange signs!

[Justaned]

You have the right to be wrong.

And I am not sure if you do express your disagreement with what Brother Hagin decided to do because he saw it as coming from the Lord but if you do please listen to this: If you show me more salvations, healings, sound books written by/accomplished through your ministry rather than Brother Hagin's I may consider your opinion of his ministry to be worth serious consideration. Perhaps you want to be a cadet talking about a field marshal's actions but if that is the case - grow up first.

Frad70,

Only God, and those already in Heaven, knows who, how many, and by whom, Believers have been led to The Lord.

PERIOD.

Whether something is of The Lord, or not, is borne witness by The Spirit of God, and The Word of God.

PERIOD.

Just because someone likes a particular member of a ministry, a writer, or other personage, does not connote authenticity to that individual. They, and their actions MUST be judged by The Spirit of God, and The Word of God.

PERIOD.

Reverend Hagin may be experiencing a Rodney Howard Brown "Holy Laughter" type flashback, but what he did was NOT of God. God is ALWAYS dignified, IS Holy, and does not create confusion amongst His Own... What Reverend Hagin did, was to bring doubt, derision, and calumny, upon, and within, The Body of Christ... He, Hagin, did nothing to further the Cause of Christ, nor did he Glorify God. That day, Satan gained "good" press, showing some Christians to be no better than easily led buffoons, entertained by a man supposedly known as a great teacher and spiritual warrior...

God Is Not Mocked! We are to be Holy, as He Is Holy! Acting as Hagin did, removes the seriousness of God's reaching out to the lost, for it is not His Will, or Desire, that ANY should perish! Do YOU, Frad70, not think that God is unaware of the internet, or YouTube? Do you not think He, God, KNOWS what goes forth, In His Name?

Test EVERYONE, EVERYTHING, by The Spirit of God, and The Word of God- ALWAYS, in ALL THINGS!!!

Perhaps you're unaware, that since The Ascension of Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, we, and our predecessors as Believers in Christ Jesus, have been involved in an unending war to the death? Why else would we be "issued" the Whole Armor of God? Or be given orders and training as how we are to operate in a perpetually hostile environment?

LIFE IS NOT A GAME, Frad70. People die, daily, for the Cause of Christ. Shame upon those who make a mockery of the Works of Christ, especially those called to serve in His Name, who do not hold themselves to the standards He set forth. Hagin had best confess, repent, and ask The Lord's Forgiveness, for if not, another his bishopric shall take. Remember Oral Roberts? He tried to blackmail God... God was not mocked...

Being a Servant of God means having responsibilities that define actions, for one does not "just" minister unto God, as the High Priests of old, but as His Representative, with whatever skills, talents, and gifts that God has equipped His Servant. Whom He Calls, He so equips. God is His Word. NEVER take it, or Him, lightly, or without respect!!!

Those that know Hagin, by The Holy Spirit, and by The Word of God, should reprove, rebuke, and correct him. To do less, is cowardly, and does not reflect well upon The Cause of Christ, or upon God, The Father, The Son, or The Holy Spirit. Such incorrect behavior, exemplifies the Apostasy and Age of Lawlessness that The Church has entered... Do not be deceived for even the very elect ARE being deceived...

Take heed, of what God is saying to His People, Frad70... "Be ye Holy, as I Am Holy..."

Maranatha

Watchman2013

Good word and a great call to Holiness without which no one will see God.

[bibleman]

Hi Ed,

Strange you say: "nothing suggests the Holy Spirit forces people to go outside their will."

When you talk about people being saved, you say that a truly born again person will NOT be lost... even if they commit adultery, get drunk and and beat their children. You tell us regardless of the fact that they no longer want to serve God and go to Heaven... that AGAINST their will that have to stay saved.

Strange beliefs you have there.

I never said or suggestted any of that. To suggest I did is a bold face lie.
What I said was no truly saved person would ever commit adultery, get drunk and and beat their children.

Now if you have people in your church that commit adultery, get drunk and and beat their children perhaps you need to stop sticking your tongue out them and start preaching Jesus and Him crucified, died and resurrected to them.

The evidence of people BACKSLIDING from God and then "commit adultery, get drunk and and beat their children" is very real.

That fact that you deny it only shows that your Calvinist theology mindset.

What evidence? What proof do you offer that shows they were ever saved?
Their confession? Do you believe a person that claims to be saved then commits adultery and gets drunk and beats their children?

Hi Ed,

Evidence of salvation? Their confession is what the Bible says shows their salvation. Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

People who get saved do backslide and commit adultery, get drunk and beat their children! I have seen it a number of times over the years. Judas was saved and did worse than that when he backslid on God!

Bibleman
So you are saying that man that is an adulterer a drunk and beater of children is to be believed when he says he is saved?

Can you explain how the Holy Spirit indwells in a person that is an adulterer, a drunk and beater of children? If the we are the temple of the Holy Spirit aren't we required to be Holy?

As far as Judas do you really believe the Holy Spirit was in Judas when Satan entered him as spoken to by the word of God?

Can holiness of the Holy Spirit share the same house with sin?

A person is either saved and therefore the living temple of the Holy Spirit accoding to scripture or he isn't.

Hi Ed,

NO a man that is a "adulterer a drunk and beater of children" is NOT saved. But he could have been saved and lost his salvation at the point of those sins.

You asked: "Can you explain how the Holy Spirit indwells in a person that is an adulterer, a drunk and beater of children?"

He does NOT indwell them any longer when they commit such death penalty sins.

Above you said: "A person is either saved and therefore the living temple of the Holy Spirit accoding to scripture or he isn't."

YES I agree, So a person can be saved and live holy... and then through acts of transgression and sin lose his salvation... and become un-saved and once again become a child of the Devil.

But of course with you Calvinistic thinking you do not believe that... do you?

[Justaned]

Hi Ed,

Strange you say: "nothing suggests the Holy Spirit forces people to go outside their will."

When you talk about people being saved, you say that a truly born again person will NOT be lost... even if they commit adultery, get drunk and and beat their children. You tell us regardless of the fact that they no longer want to serve God and go to Heaven... that AGAINST their will that have to stay saved.

Strange beliefs you have there.

I never said or suggestted any of that. To suggest I did is a bold face lie.
What I said was no truly saved person would ever commit adultery, get drunk and and beat their children.

Now if you have people in your church that commit adultery, get drunk and and beat their children perhaps you need to stop sticking your tongue out them and start preaching Jesus and Him crucified, died and resurrected to them.

The evidence of people BACKSLIDING from God and then "commit adultery, get drunk and and beat their children" is very real.

That fact that you deny it only shows that your Calvinist theology mindset.

What evidence? What proof do you offer that shows they were ever saved?
Their confession? Do you believe a person that claims to be saved then commits adultery and gets drunk and beats their children?

Hi Ed,

Evidence of salvation? Their confession is what the Bible says shows their salvation. Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

People who get saved do backslide and commit adultery, get drunk and beat their children! I have seen it a number of times over the years. Judas was saved and did worse than that when he backslid on God!

Bibleman
So you are saying that man that is an adulterer a drunk and beater of children is to be believed when he says he is saved?

Can you explain how the Holy Spirit indwells in a person that is an adulterer, a drunk and beater of children? If the we are the temple of the Holy Spirit aren't we required to be Holy?

As far as Judas do you really believe the Holy Spirit was in Judas when Satan entered him as spoken to by the word of God?

Can holiness of the Holy Spirit share the same house with sin?

A person is either saved and therefore the living temple of the Holy Spirit accoding to scripture or he isn't.

Hi Ed,

NO a man that is a "adulterer a drunk and beater of children" is NOT saved. But he could have been saved and lost his salvation at the point of those sins.

You asked: "Can you explain how the Holy Spirit indwells in a person that is an adulterer, a drunk and beater of children?"

He does NOT indwell them any longer when they commit such death penalty sins.

Above you said: "A person is either saved and therefore the living temple of the Holy Spirit accoding to scripture or he isn't."

YES I agree, So a person can be saved and live holy... and then through acts of transgression and sin lose his salvation... and become un-saved and once again become a child of the Devil.

But of course with you Calvinistic thinking you do not believe that... do you?

Oh I believe that. What I don't believe is the next step you want to take that the man then can come back to salvation. I say Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 10 say that can't happen.

[bibleman]

Oh I believe that. What I don't believe is the next step you want to take that the man then can come back to salvation. I say Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 10 say that can't happen.

Well Ed,

Here is what God says:

Isaiah 55:7 (KJV) 7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

So your understanding of those passages has got to be wrong!

[Justaned]

Oh I believe that. What I don't believe is the next step you want to take that the man then can come back to salvation. I say Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 10 say that can't happen.

Well Ed,

Here is what God says:

Isaiah 55:7 (KJV) 7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

So your understanding of those passages has got to be wrong!

I think in the passage you quote God is speaking of man's departure from God in the garden. There is no indication in your cited passage that the man was ever saved.

Let take the passage you say I have the incorrect understanding of and figure out who is wrong.

Hebrews 6:4-6 (NKJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Hebrews 10:26-27 (NKJV)
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.


Do you agree that both passages are talking about a saved person when in verse 4 it says the person is enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come. And in Hebrew 10 where it says
have received the knowledge of the truth?

So do you agree it is talking of a saved person?

[Justaned]

Since you didn't respond I assume you agreed they are talking about a saved person.

Okay now back to the our verses
Hebrews 6:4-6 (NKJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Hebrews 10:26-27 (NKJV)
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.


What do they say "if he sins willfully" I think we all understand that to mean the person intentionally sinned, does it not?

So these passages are talking about a saved person that intentionally sins.

Agreed?

What does it say happens? Hebrews 6 says it is impossible to be renewed to repentance and Hebrews 10 says there not longer remains a sacrifice for their sins.

Isn't that saying they can no longer be saved? Is sure says that or do you see something that changes what they are saying?

You said I didn't have the correct understanding of those passages, please show me where I errored.

[Rocky]

Hey Ed, I was a Christian spirit filled when I was younger, even spoke in tongues, I was Born again. I was even baptized in the Holy Ghost. Then I turned my back on God and later became an atheist, then lived a life of addiction and debauchery just like the Prodigal son. But praise God, years later The lord came back into my life and restored me, delivered me supernaturally from various addictions. How do you explain this? Was I not saved before I backslid?

[Justaned]

Hey Ed, I was a Christian spirit filled when I was younger, even spoke in tongues, I was Born again. I was even baptized in the Holy Ghost. Then I turned my back on God and later became an atheist, then lived a life of addiction and debauchery just like the Prodigal son. But praise God, years later The lord came back into my life and restored me, delivered me supernaturally from various addictions. How do you explain this? Was I not saved before I backslid?

Rocky
How do you explain it in light of what we have discussed in Hebrews 6 and 10.

You keep telling me I misunderstand these passage but yet they are very clear, they don't contain any play on words, metaphors or any special figures of speech. They simply say what they say. So how do I misunderstand them?

Or

Could it be you misunderstand what it means to be saved? Or could it be you misunderstand what it takes for you to loose that salvation?

[frad70]

Kenneth E Hagin was one of the greatest ministers of the Gospel in the 20th Century alongside TL Osborn, RW Schambah, Lester Sumrall, Gordon Lindsay, EW Kenyon and a couple of others. Anytime someone strongly states s/he disagrees with what they said or did I stop listening to him/her. I don't care if somebody considers it sectarian, cultic or whatever. My doctrinal balance is extremely precious to me.

[Justaned]

Kenneth E Hagin was one of the greatest ministers of the Gospel in the 20th Century alongside TL Osborn, RW Schambah, Lester Sumrall, Gordon Lindsay, EW Kenyon and a couple of others. Anytime someone strongly states s/he disagrees with what they said or did I stop listening to him/her. I don't care if somebody considers it sectarian, cultic or whatever. My doctrinal balance is extremely precious to me.

So you don't care what scripture says only what one of the men you mentioned said? I think Paul talked about that ... Oh yeah you don't care what Paul said only what these guys said.