Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ A paradigm shift of salvation! What do you think!

[bibleman]

Over years there has been a debate over once saved always saved and the correct Biblical understanding.

BUT the final outcome for both camps were the same for the person living in sin.

Used to be like this:

A Christian is living right. =
(Biblical perspective - Going to Heaven)
(OSAS - Going to Heaven)
- Both in agreement on the end result.

A Christian is NOT living right (a sinner). =
(Biblical perspective - Saved person backslid and now on their way to Hell)
(OSAS - Never was saved in the first place and now on their way to Hell)
- On the state of the person there was disagreement but both in agreement on the end result.

NOW it seems to be changing to this:

A Christian is living right. =
(Biblical perspective - Going to Heaven)
(OSAS - Going to Heaven)
- Both in agreement on the end result.

A Christian is NOT living right (a sinner). =
(Biblical perspective - Saved person backslid and now on their way to Hell)
(OSAS - STILL IS SAVED and now on their way to HEAVENl)
- On the state of the person there is disagreement and in disagreement on the end result.

In other words while in days gone by there was general agreement on the sinner going to Hell,...
now that agreement is gone and the sinner is going to Heaven.

Does anyone see this as I have laid it out here???

[Justaned]

Over years there has been a debate over once saved always saved and the correct Biblical understanding.

BUT the final outcome for both camps were the same for the person living in sin.

Used to be like this:

A Christian is living right. =
(Biblical perspective - Going to Heaven)
(OSAS - Going to Heaven)
- Both in agreement on the end result.

A Christian is NOT living right (a sinner). =
(Biblical perspective - Saved person backslid and now on their way to Hell)
(OSAS - Never was saved in the first place and now on their way to Hell)
- On the state of the person there was disagreement but both in agreement on the end result.

NOW it seems to be changing to this:

A Christian is living right. =
(Biblical perspective - Going to Heaven)
(OSAS - Going to Heaven)
- Both in agreement on the end result.

A Christian is NOT living right (a sinner). =
(Biblical perspective - Saved person backslid and now on their way to Hell)
(OSAS - STILL IS SAVED and now on their way to HEAVENl)
- On the state of the person there is disagreement and in disagreement on the end result.

In other words while in days gone by there was general agreement on the sinner going to Hell,...
now that agreement is gone and the sinner is going to Heaven.

Does anyone see this as I have laid it out here???

I think the problem is more like this. We will used the sin of omission.

Christian living right
NON OSAS = Heaven
OSAS = heaven

Christian neglects a widow
Non OSAS = Don't want to talk about that.
OSAS = Committed Sin but going to heaven.

Now with the sin of cheating on Income Tax.

Christian cheats on Income Tax
Non OSAS = Don't want to talk about that.
OSAS = Committed sin but going to heaven.

Now with sin of back stabbing the pastor.
Non OSAS = Dirty dog sinned and is going straight to hell.
OSAS = was probably right but shouldn't have said it saved going to Heaven.

Sin of adultery
Non OSAS = Boys will be boys but he is in sin and going straight to hell.
OSAS = Probably wasn't saved, even though he claimed to be. Going to hell.

Sin of using God name in vain when person was building the church's family life center and hit his finger
Non OSAS = Now this is what I'm talking about used the Lords name in vain and backslide going to hell until he repents.
OSAS = Should clean up his talk but still going to heaven.

Now the one every one likes the best in these kind of discussions.
Robs a bank and shoots two in his get away.
Non OSAS = Going straight to hell
OSAS = Going straight to hell.

God = He was going to hell all along claiming to be saved when he wasn't

Personally Christians shouldn't be talking about what they can get away with, instead we should be encouraging each other to live more Christ like and then we won't not have to worry about Once Save Always Saved or not.


Forgot one

Riding down the road going 80 with the radar detector on dash.
Non OSAS = Nobody said a radar protector is wrong. Besides as a pastor I'm on the Lord's business that makes me exempt.
OSAS = Sinned and still going to heaven.

Forgot another one
TV evangelist caught having an affair with 5 different women and a young boy.
Non OSAS = Good boy just got caught with his hand in cookie jar, but he is back slidden needs a year off and to repent if not he is going to hell.

OSAS = He was born a huckster and he will die a huckster going to hell.

[Watchman2013]

Over years there has been a debate over once saved always saved and the correct Biblical understanding.

BUT the final outcome for both camps were the same for the person living in sin.

Used to be like this:

A Christian is living right. =
(Biblical perspective - Going to Heaven)
(OSAS - Going to Heaven)
- Both in agreement on the end result.

A Christian is NOT living right (a sinner). =
(Biblical perspective - Saved person backslid and now on their way to Hell)
(OSAS - Never was saved in the first place and now on their way to Hell)
- On the state of the person there was disagreement but both in agreement on the end result.

NOW it seems to be changing to this:

A Christian is living right. =
(Biblical perspective - Going to Heaven)
(OSAS - Going to Heaven)
- Both in agreement on the end result.

A Christian is NOT living right (a sinner). =
(Biblical perspective - Saved person backslid and now on their way to Hell)
(OSAS - STILL IS SAVED and now on their way to HEAVENl)
- On the state of the person there is disagreement and in disagreement on the end result.

In other words while in days gone by there was general agreement on the sinner going to Hell,...
now that agreement is gone and the sinner is going to Heaven.

Does anyone see this as I have laid it out here???

I think the problem is more like this. We will used the sin of omission.

Christian living right
NON OSAS = Heaven
OSAS = heaven

Christian neglects a widow
Non OSAS = Don't want to talk about that.
OSAS = Committed Sin but going to heaven.

Now with the sin of cheating on Income Tax.

Christian cheats on Income Tax
Non OSAS = Don't want to talk about that.
OSAS = Committed sin but going to heaven.

Now with sin of back stabbing the pastor.
Non OSAS = Dirty dog sinned and is going straight to hell.
OSAS = was probably right but shouldn't have said it saved going to Heaven.

Sin of adultery
Non OSAS = Boys will be boys but he is in sin and going straight to hell.
OSAS = Probably wasn't saved, even though he claimed to be. Going to hell.

Sin of using God name in vain when person was building the church's family life center and hit his finger
Non OSAS = Now this is what I'm talking about used the Lords name in vain and backslide going to hell until he repents.
OSAS = Should clean up his talk but still going to heaven.

Now the one every one likes the best in these kind of discussions.
Robs a bank and shoots two in his get away.
Non OSAS = Going straight to hell
OSAS = Going straight to hell.

God = He was going to hell all along claiming to be saved when he wasn't

Personally Christians shouldn't be talking about what they can get away with, instead we should be encouraging each other to live more Christ like and then we won't not have to worry about Once Save Always Saved or not.


Forgot one

Riding down the road going 80 with the radar detector on dash.
Non OSAS = Nobody said a radar protector is wrong. Besides as a pastor I'm on the Lord's business that makes me exempt.
OSAS = Sinned and still going to heaven.

Forgot another one
TV evangelist caught having an affair with 5 different women and a young boy.
Non OSAS = Good boy just got caught with his hand in cookie jar, but he is back slidden needs a year off and to repent if not he is going to hell.

OSAS = He was born a huckster and he will die a huckster going to hell.

Wow, Justaned!

After reading this, only two possibilities:

1.). Heaven is going to be well filled. OSAS.

2.). Heaven, very thinly populated... Non-OSAS.

Human nature says that Heaven will be sparsely populated...

Well above my pay grade...

I'll do my best, under the Precious Blood of Jesus, relying upon confession for any sins committed/repentance for those sins/and asking God for His Forgiveness, all the while trusting in The Lord's Love, Mercy, Grace, and ever loving Kindness... If all that, and child-like Faith is not enough, I'm toast...

Maranatha

Watchman2013

[Justaned]

Over years there has been a debate over once saved always saved and the correct Biblical understanding.

BUT the final outcome for both camps were the same for the person living in sin.

Used to be like this:

A Christian is living right. =
(Biblical perspective - Going to Heaven)
(OSAS - Going to Heaven)
- Both in agreement on the end result.

A Christian is NOT living right (a sinner). =
(Biblical perspective - Saved person backslid and now on their way to Hell)
(OSAS - Never was saved in the first place and now on their way to Hell)
- On the state of the person there was disagreement but both in agreement on the end result.

NOW it seems to be changing to this:

A Christian is living right. =
(Biblical perspective - Going to Heaven)
(OSAS - Going to Heaven)
- Both in agreement on the end result.

A Christian is NOT living right (a sinner). =
(Biblical perspective - Saved person backslid and now on their way to Hell)
(OSAS - STILL IS SAVED and now on their way to HEAVENl)
- On the state of the person there is disagreement and in disagreement on the end result.

In other words while in days gone by there was general agreement on the sinner going to Hell,...
now that agreement is gone and the sinner is going to Heaven.

Does anyone see this as I have laid it out here???

I think the problem is more like this. We will used the sin of omission.

Christian living right
NON OSAS = Heaven
OSAS = heaven

Christian neglects a widow
Non OSAS = Don't want to talk about that.
OSAS = Committed Sin but going to heaven.

Now with the sin of cheating on Income Tax.

Christian cheats on Income Tax
Non OSAS = Don't want to talk about that.
OSAS = Committed sin but going to heaven.

Now with sin of back stabbing the pastor.
Non OSAS = Dirty dog sinned and is going straight to hell.
OSAS = was probably right but shouldn't have said it saved going to Heaven.

Sin of adultery
Non OSAS = Boys will be boys but he is in sin and going straight to hell.
OSAS = Probably wasn't saved, even though he claimed to be. Going to hell.

Sin of using God name in vain when person was building the church's family life center and hit his finger
Non OSAS = Now this is what I'm talking about used the Lords name in vain and backslide going to hell until he repents.
OSAS = Should clean up his talk but still going to heaven.

Now the one every one likes the best in these kind of discussions.
Robs a bank and shoots two in his get away.
Non OSAS = Going straight to hell
OSAS = Going straight to hell.

God = He was going to hell all along claiming to be saved when he wasn't

Personally Christians shouldn't be talking about what they can get away with, instead we should be encouraging each other to live more Christ like and then we won't not have to worry about Once Save Always Saved or not.


Forgot one

Riding down the road going 80 with the radar detector on dash.
Non OSAS = Nobody said a radar protector is wrong. Besides as a pastor I'm on the Lord's business that makes me exempt.
OSAS = Sinned and still going to heaven.

Forgot another one
TV evangelist caught having an affair with 5 different women and a young boy.
Non OSAS = Good boy just got caught with his hand in cookie jar, but he is back slidden needs a year off and to repent if not he is going to hell.

OSAS = He was born a huckster and he will die a huckster going to hell.

Wow, Justaned!

After reading this, only two possibilities:

1.). Heaven is going to be well filled. OSAS.

2.). Heaven, very thinly populated... Non-OSAS.

Human nature says that Heaven will be sparsely populated...

Well above my pay grade...

I'll do my best, under the Precious Blood of Jesus, relying upon confession for any sins committed/repentance for those sins/and asking God for His Forgiveness, all the while trusting in The Lord's Love, Mercy, Grace, and ever loving Kindness... If all that, and child-like Faith is not enough, I'm toast...

Maranatha

Watchman2013

I agree heaven will be sparsely populated and there are going to be a lot of shocked people that finds out what they call Christianity is not what God calls christianity. That worries me a lot for I hate that so many deceived people will only find out about their deception when it is too late. Even though many have tried to tell them including yourself and me.

But you are right it is above our pay grades all we can do is speak the truth to those that will listen.

I think the biggest thing is to stay in relationship with Christ that way the things that would make us stumble will go by the way side and we will walk straight and true the course set before us by Christ Himself.

[frad70]

Heaven will have multitudes upon multitudes. Check the end of the Bible.

[Justaned]

Haben will have multitudes upon multitudes. Check the end of the Bible.

Just not those that view cross to be Jesus' failure or defeat.

[Watchman2013]

Heaven will have multitudes upon multitudes. Check the end of the Bible.

Okay, Frad70, you're thinking of those coming into God's Kingdom AFTER The Rapture... You're not thinking about those that have, and will, go on before The Rapture.

What does it cost, to live for God now? Isn't life better if one does, now, and wanting to, live for, serve, and be with, God?
Those that enter into God's Rest, AFTER The Rapture, will, in many cases, make it "the hard way." As in torture, affliction, and martyrdom. Who, in their right minds, would put Salvation off, into a very perilous future?

Is God Faithful to His Word? He IS His Word!!! So, what's the deal with OS,AS? If you are a Christian, don't live like the Devil... What could it possibly hurt Christians, to be Christ-like?

Think about it- seriously think about this, and view this as a call to Holiness...

Maranatha

Watchman2013

[Justaned]

Heaven will have multitudes upon multitudes. Check the end of the Bible.

Okay, Frad70, you're thinking of those coming into God's Kingdom AFTER The Rapture... You're not thinking about those that have, and will, go on before The Rapture.

What does it cost, to live for God now? Isn't life better if one does, now, and wanting to, live for, serve, and be with, God?
Those that enter into God's Rest, AFTER The Rapture, will, in many cases, make it "the hard way." As in torture, affliction, and martyrdom. Who, in their right minds, would put Salvation off, into a very perilous future?

Is God Faithful to His Word? He IS His Word!!! So, what's the deal with OS,AS? If you are a Christian, don't live like the Devil... What could it possibly hurt Christians, to be Christ-like?

Think about it- seriously think about this, and view this as a call to Holiness...

Maranatha

Watchman2013

Preach it brother I like holiness talk we don't hear it enough around these parts. Everyone is more interested in what they can get away with or how to get God to serve them and fill their fleshly lusts.

[Watchman2013]

In calling for Holiness, the Believer's seeking Christ's Perfection, by choice, not dictum, means eschewing sin. As we are still human, we are subject to error, and are capable of sin. Does the ability to confess, repent, seek forgiveness, and regain our position in Christ mean that Holiness is "just" an exercise in faith? No, most definitely not. God knows us, and still loves us. He knows our strengths, our weaknesses, and how all things will end-up... Was Peter, before Christ's ascent to the Cross, never to be restored? What about his doubt, as to "being in Christ," and accepted back into the fold, by his Apostolic Fellows?

Methinks that too many have donned the robes of the blind men, who in attempting to describe an elephant, were at times right, and others, off of the mark... Yes, at times we see things as through a glass darkly, but is that not our fault, our shortcoming, rather than that of our not taking the time to read, comprehend, and understand God's Precious Holy Word? Has not The Lord provided us with the Ultimate Interpreter and Expositor of His Word, The Holy Spirit?

Salvation is but the beginning... It is NOT a guarantee that one can live like the Devil, and mock God, and assume that everything will be "all right." On the contrary, Salvation is the beginning of the job of becoming Christ-like. It behooves a Christian to become "Holy," as God is Holy...

Is this an impossible task? No. It is a quest, a journey, where one grows in faith, experience, love, mercy, and grace... It can be an easy journey, or it can be one fraught with perils... How close we walk with God, determines how "easy" our journey is... Total faith, reliance, and belief in God, makes one's journey, "easy." Doing anything less, as regards how God wants us to be, makes our journey much more difficult, and allows the Devil more opportunities to snipe at us... The good thing? If you're doing your best to remain Holy, and are doing things in God's Will, to be absent from the body, as in death, is to be present with The Lord. Win-Win...

If I'm all over the Spiritual landscape on this, it's because I'm grappling with something that I've taken for granted, rather than analyzing what "is..." My beliefs are simple, as am I... Live for God, do your best according to His Word, and have total, complete, unwavering belief, and reliance, upon, God. HE is the Beginning and End All, of all that is- past, present, and future. We are, because GOD IS... Without Him, nothing is...

Holiness is simple. Not difficult. It quite simply means, Living for God. Remember those nifty little bracelets that said, WWJD? What Would Jesus Do? There's your simple answer, from a simple man. It's not enough to be able to do many things, and do them well. It's not enough to be successful, and highly regarded in your field, by your peers, by your friends, or family. No, as nice as those things are, there is only ONE we must always seek to please. God. God The Father, God The Son, God The Holy Spirit. IF we seek to do this, with our whole hearts, minds, souls, and bodies, to love, worship, respect, and obey, God, He knows this, and does help us in the doing thereof...

There will NEVER be enough time, for an eternity of eternities, to properly thank God for all He's done, is doing, and will do...
He asks so little of us. Is it too much to ask of ourselves, that we live for Him, to do Him proud?

Holiness is a choice, in this dispensation. In the Old Testament, it was a command.

I don't know about you, but there were lots of things in the Old Testament that are still "good." By Choice, not command... Holiness, is one of those many things that I believe is necessary in this time, and place. In fact, I believe that it is something that must, like Practicing the Presence of God, must be begun, practiced, and maintained- from now, and on through eternity... We owe it to God, and we must do it for ourselves... To do anything less, is to not be truly honest, and faithful to, God. He IS worthy to be praised, honored, adored, obeyed, and so much more... Again, it is little enough, when one considers Him, who first loved us...

If you disagree, feel free to fire away...

Maranatha

Watchman2013

[branham1965]

Yes Pastor Bible i think you are 100%% spot on

Over years there has been a debate over once saved always saved and the correct Biblical understanding.

BUT the final outcome for both camps were the same for the person living in sin.

Used to be like this:

A Christian is living right. =
(Biblical perspective - Going to Heaven)
(OSAS - Going to Heaven)
- Both in agreement on the end result.

A Christian is NOT living right (a sinner). =
(Biblical perspective - Saved person backslid and now on their way to Hell)
(OSAS - Never was saved in the first place and now on their way to Hell)
- On the state of the person there was disagreement but both in agreement on the end result.

NOW it seems to be changing to this:

A Christian is living right. =
(Biblical perspective - Going to Heaven)
(OSAS - Going to Heaven)
- Both in agreement on the end result.

A Christian is NOT living right (a sinner). =
(Biblical perspective - Saved person backslid and now on their way to Hell)
(OSAS - STILL IS SAVED and now on their way to HEAVENl)
- On the state of the person there is disagreement and in disagreement on the end result.

In other words while in days gone by there was general agreement on the sinner going to Hell,...
now that agreement is gone and the sinner is going to Heaven.

Does anyone see this as I have laid it out here???