Dake Bible Discussion BoardThank God for a know so salvation!

General Discussion Forum devoted to the study of God's Word in Honor of Finis J. Dake.
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Justaned
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Re: Thank God for a know so salvation!

Post by Justaned »

macca wrote:Now it came to about after these things, that God tested Abraham, and said to him, "Abrham!" And he said, "here i am ".

And He said, "Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Issac, and go to the land of Moriah; and offer him there as a burnt offering on
one of the mountains of which i will tell you".

So Abraham arose early in the morning and saddled his donkey, and took two of his young men with him and Issac his son;
and he split wood for a burnt offering, and arose and went to the place of which God had told him.

On the 3rd day Abraham raised his eyes and the place from a distance.

And Abraham said to his young men, "stay here with the donkey, and i and the lad will go yonder; and we will worship and return to you".

And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering and laid it on Issac his son, and took in his hand the fire and the knife. So the 2 of them walked on together.

And Issac spoke to Abraham his father and said, "My father!" and he said, "Here I am my son". And he said, "Behold, the fire and the wood,
but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?"

And Abraham said, 'God will provide for Himself the lamb for the burnt offering, my son". So the 2 of them walked on together.

Then they came to the place that God had told him; and Abraham built the alter there, and arranged the wood, and bound his son Issac, and laid him on the alter on top of the wood.

And Abraham stretched out his hand, and took the knife to slay him.

But the angel of the Lord called to him from heaven, and said, "Abraham, Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am".

And he said, "Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now i know you fear God, sence you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me"

Then Abraham raised his eyes and looked, and behold, behind him a ram caught in the thicket by his horns; and Abraham went and took the ram
and offered him up for a burnt offering in the place of his son.

And Abraham called the name of that place The Lord will provide, as it is said to this day, "In the mount of the Lord it will be provided".

Then the angel of the Lord called to Abraham a 2nd time from heaven.

And said,"By myself i have sworn, declares the Lord, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son,

indeed I will gratly bless you, and i will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens, and the sand which is on the seashore;
and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies.

And in your seed shall all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you obeyed My voice".

So Abraham returned to his young men, and they arose and went together to Beesheba; and Abraham live at Beersheba.

By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Issac; and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;
to whom it was said, "In Issac your decendants shall be called".
He considered that God was able to raise men even from the dead; from which also he received him back as a type.

Therfore i will believe as my father Abraham has and what my Lord has promised to me He shall fullfill, even though there is no tangible evidence
before me.
I and Abraham are word of faith and we trust what God has said will come to pass as exactly as He has said.

Jesus agrees when He said, " Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad".

macca
Macca
The problem is the definition of Word of Faith is not simply having faith in God.
It were then I would certainly be Word of Faith. The thing that sets Word of Faith apart from say Holiness, Pentecostalism, Whole Bible theology is the blending in of a metaphysical element. Metaphysicalism is the defining attribute to WOF without it, WOF would be Pentecostalism, Whole Bible or something else.

That element Metaphysicalism is something I don't see in Dake's writings yet many here claim Dale was a WOF.

That is impossible without the inclusion of the Metaphysical philosophy pentecostalism remains Pentecostalism, Whole Bible remains Whole Bile and Holiness remain Holiness. I mention Whole Bible and Holiness because they were the roots of Pentecostalism.

Abraham was definitely a man of Faith. It was by this faith in God that God was able to accomplish what He did with Abraham. Yes God blessed Abraham becasuse of his faith. But Abraham was exhibited any Metaphysical element in his faith for God.
Therefore Abraham was not Word of Faith.

Before you label yourself something dig down into it and find out what that something is.



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bibleman
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Re: Thank God for a know so salvation!

Post by bibleman »

Justaned wrote: I don't recall disagreeing with Dake on faith. Admittedly I do disagree with Dake on a some points of theology.
Hi Justaned,

Thank God! You and I agree on Dake and his teaching of faith.
Believe that God wants you to have prosperity and health and the good things of life. Believe they are the will of God for you. Live in the faith of the things you want, for after all, “Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen” (Heb. 11:1). It is the principle of life that “calleth those things which be not as though they were” (Rom. 4:12-24). Faith is making a blueprint of what you want and working toward that end.
Before you get what you want
act as though you already had it.
Visualize it as yours.
See it with your mind and heart and put forth every effort to bring it about.
Turn over to God the things you cannot do, and He will bring them to pass. Just relax and have faith in God in such matters that you are helpless to bring about. When you worry and are fearful that events will not work out, you hinder God from working the matter out for you. Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 214.
God says you can have whatsoever you ask, and anyone who even suggests that you cannot have what you pray for is your enemy and the enemy of God. They are helping Satan rob you of what is rightfully yours. They cannot rob you of these blessings if you will make a decision to not listen to them, but rather have faith in God. You know now what you must do, so do it with all your heart and you will abundantly receive. God gives to all men liberally and upbraideth not, but He does require faith, nothing wavering. He will not answer on any other terms (Jas. 1:5-9; Heb. 11:6). If you do not get the answer, then you know what is wrong. Correct it, and you shall be heard.

Maintain this attitude and ignore any feeling, thought, or happening that is contrary to the answer. You can say “I believe” just as easily as you can say that it is hard to have faith. You can make every thought and word a positive act of faith. You can simply refuse any negative thought. Learn to build up faith instead of tear it down. State the truth in all that you say, and never think or express one thought contrary to the fact that you have been heard by God and that you have the answer. Though you cannot see the answer, it is still yours, for faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen (Heb. 11:1; Rom. 4:17-21). If you have faith you have the answer. Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 110-111.
You Know Ed,

With you and I both believing the above I would say we are BOTH WOF! :angel:


God bless
Leon Bible

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cpbeller
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Re: Thank God for a know so salvation!

Post by cpbeller »

Now, Leon...don't you know that Dake never, ever said what he actually meant. In fact, it appears as though that is the key to becoming Christlike...never meaning what you say. Or at least, that is what I have been told...


DISCLAIMER: Whatever I say or do not say may or may not apply to you based on whether you are or are not a Christian. And whether you are or are not a Christian may or may not be based off of whatever denomination you may or may not be a part of.

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Ironman
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Re: Thank God for a know so salvation!

Post by Ironman »

The word faith is mentioned in Scripture 231 times. Here are a few of them.

"And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham" (Gal. 3:8-9).

"That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." (Gal. 3:14).

"To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:4-5).


"That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls." (1 Peter 1:7-9).

"(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)" (2 Cor. 5:7).

By faith Abel (Hebrews 11:4),

By faith Enoch (Hebrews 11:5),

By faith Noah, (Hebrews 11:9),

By faith Abraham, (Hebrews 11:8),

Through faith also Sara (Hebrews 11;11),

Agains; By faith Abraham, (Hebrews 11:17),

By faith Isaac (Hebrews 11:20),

By faith Jacob, (Hebrews 11:21),

By faith Joseph, (Hebrews 11:22),

By faith Moses, (Hebrews 11:23-24),

By faith the harlot Rahab perished not (Hebrews 11:31),


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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branham1965
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Re: Thank God for a know so salvation!

Post by branham1965 »

THE PROBLEM WITH ALL THAT IS IT WORKS ON SOME CASES .......... BUT TRY IT ON ORGANICALLY DEFORMED PEOPLE,A BLIND MAN WITH NO EYES,A TERMINAL CANCER PATIENT,CRIPPLED PERSONS LIKE MY SISTER OR COUSIN MY EX-FATHER IN LAW,AN AN AMPUTEE IN BOSTON AND IT IS SHOWN TO BE EXACTLY WHAT IT IS. :neutral: :neutral: :neutral:


bibleman wrote:
Justaned wrote: I don't recall disagreeing with Dake on faith. Admittedly I do disagree with Dake on a some points of theology.
Hi Justaned,

Thank God! You and I agree on Dake and his teaching of faith.
Believe that God wants you to have prosperity and health and the good things of life. Believe they are the will of God for you. Live in the faith of the things you want, for after all, “Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen” (Heb. 11:1). It is the principle of life that “calleth those things which be not as though they were” (Rom. 4:12-24). Faith is making a blueprint of what you want and working toward that end.
Before you get what you want
act as though you already had it.
Visualize it as yours.
See it with your mind and heart and put forth every effort to bring it about.
Turn over to God the things you cannot do, and He will bring them to pass. Just relax and have faith in God in such matters that you are helpless to bring about. When you worry and are fearful that events will not work out, you hinder God from working the matter out for you. Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 214.
God says you can have whatsoever you ask, and anyone who even suggests that you cannot have what you pray for is your enemy and the enemy of God. They are helping Satan rob you of what is rightfully yours. They cannot rob you of these blessings if you will make a decision to not listen to them, but rather have faith in God. You know now what you must do, so do it with all your heart and you will abundantly receive. God gives to all men liberally and upbraideth not, but He does require faith, nothing wavering. He will not answer on any other terms (Jas. 1:5-9; Heb. 11:6). If you do not get the answer, then you know what is wrong. Correct it, and you shall be heard.

Maintain this attitude and ignore any feeling, thought, or happening that is contrary to the answer. You can say “I believe” just as easily as you can say that it is hard to have faith. You can make every thought and word a positive act of faith. You can simply refuse any negative thought. Learn to build up faith instead of tear it down. State the truth in all that you say, and never think or express one thought contrary to the fact that you have been heard by God and that you have the answer. Though you cannot see the answer, it is still yours, for faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen (Heb. 11:1; Rom. 4:17-21). If you have faith you have the answer. Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 110-111.
You Know Ed,

With you and I both believing the above I would say we are BOTH WOF! :angel:



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branham1965
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Re: Thank God for a know so salvation!

Post by branham1965 »

EVERY SCRIPTURE HERE PROVES THE GREAT SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS GIVEN TO BOTH JEW AND THE GENTILES IN CHRIST.EPH1:3.

IT IS ABOUT THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS AND HOPE OF A HOME IN HEAVEN IN THE AFTER AWHILE.
Ironman wrote:"And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham" (Gal. 3:8-9).

"That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." (Gal. 3:14).

"To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:4-5).


"That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls." (1 Peter 1:7-9).

"(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)" (2 Cor. 5:7).



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Ironman
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Re: Thank God for a know so salvation!

Post by Ironman »

branham1965 wrote:EVERY SCRIPTURE HERE PROVES THE GREAT SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS GIVEN TO BOTH JEW AND THE GENTILES IN CHRIST.EPH1:3.

IT IS ABOUT THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS AND HOPE OF A HOME IN HEAVEN IN THE AFTER AWHILE.
Ironman wrote:"And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham" (Gal. 3:8-9).

"That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." (Gal. 3:14).

"To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:4-5).


"That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls." (1 Peter 1:7-9).

"(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)" (2 Cor. 5:7).
branham1965 wrote:
"THE PROBLEM WITH ALL THAT IS IT WORKS ON SOME CASES .......... BUT TRY IT ON ORGANICALLY DEFORMED PEOPLE,A BLIND MAN WITH NO EYES,A TERMINAL CANCER PATIENT,CRIPPLED PERSONS LIKE MY SISTER OR COUSIN MY EX-FATHER IN LAW,AN AN AMPUTEE IN BOSTON AND IT IS SHOWN TO BE EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.
Billy, there is a difference between mental faith and true active faith. A person can feel that he has lots of faith when he has mental faith only, but this is not enough. One must have true active faith that acts upon every word of God, and that will cause one to act as if the prayer has already been answered when the prayer is offered. This kind of faith will never take NO for an answer. AND, it will not place the blame on God and try to excuse one's self for failure. It will not once question or waver concerning the answer. It counts things done whether they are seen or not.

Mental faith will begin to question the will of God if the answer is not given immediately. It will reason, wonder, and then begin to doubt, and constantly seek for some grounds to stand upon and is then easily reconsiled to defeat.
True faith is taking God at His Word. It takes time to build up such faith. Obey to the letter the word of faith and one will get whatsoever he saith (Matt. 21:21-22; Mark 11:22-24; John 14:12-15; 15:7, 16; 16:23-26).


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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branham1965
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Re: Thank God for a know so salvation!

Post by branham1965 »

THANKS for your kind post Haz.
Ironman wrote:
branham1965 wrote:EVERY SCRIPTURE HERE PROVES THE GREAT SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS GIVEN TO BOTH JEW AND THE GENTILES IN CHRIST.EPH1:3.

IT IS ABOUT THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS AND HOPE OF A HOME IN HEAVEN IN THE AFTER AWHILE.
Ironman wrote:"And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham" (Gal. 3:8-9).

"That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." (Gal. 3:14).

"To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:4-5).


"That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls." (1 Peter 1:7-9).

"(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)" (2 Cor. 5:7).
branham1965 wrote:
"THE PROBLEM WITH ALL THAT IS IT WORKS ON SOME CASES .......... BUT TRY IT ON ORGANICALLY DEFORMED PEOPLE,A BLIND MAN WITH NO EYES,A TERMINAL CANCER PATIENT,CRIPPLED PERSONS LIKE MY SISTER OR COUSIN MY EX-FATHER IN LAW,AN AN AMPUTEE IN BOSTON AND IT IS SHOWN TO BE EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.
Billy, there is a difference between mental faith and true active faith. A person can feel that he has lots of faith when he has mental faith only, but this is not enough. One must have true active faith that acts upon every word of God, and that will cause one to act as if the prayer has already been answered when the prayer is offered. This kind of faith will never take NO for an answer. AND, it will not place the blame on God and try to excuse one's self for failure. It will not once question or waver concerning the answer. It counts things done whether they are seen or not.

Mental faith will begin to question the will of God if the answer is not given immediately. It will reason, wonder, and then begin to doubt, and constantly seek for some grounds to stand upon and is then easily reconsiled to defeat.
True faith is taking God at His Word. It takes time to build up such faith. Obey to the letter the word of faith and one will get whatsoever he saith (Matt. 21:21-22; Mark 11:22-24; John 14:12-15; 15:7, 16; 16:23-26).



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macca
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Re: Thank God for a know so salvation!

Post by macca »

branham1965 wrote:THE PROBLEM WITH ALL THAT IS IT WORKS ON SOME CASES .......... BUT TRY IT ON ORGANICALLY DEFORMED PEOPLE,A BLIND MAN WITH NO EYES,A TERMINAL CANCER PATIENT,CRIPPLED PERSONS LIKE MY SISTER OR COUSIN MY EX-FATHER IN LAW,AN AN AMPUTEE IN BOSTON AND IT IS SHOWN TO BE EXACTLY WHAT IT IS. :neutral: :neutral: :neutral:


bibleman wrote:
Justaned wrote: I don't recall disagreeing with Dake on faith. Admittedly I do disagree with Dake on a some points of theology.
Hi Justaned,

Thank God! You and I agree on Dake and his teaching of faith.
Believe that God wants you to have prosperity and health and the good things of life. Believe they are the will of God for you. Live in the faith of the things you want, for after all, “Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen” (Heb. 11:1). It is the principle of life that “calleth those things which be not as though they were” (Rom. 4:12-24). Faith is making a blueprint of what you want and working toward that end.
Before you get what you want
act as though you already had it.
Visualize it as yours.
See it with your mind and heart and put forth every effort to bring it about.
Turn over to God the things you cannot do, and He will bring them to pass. Just relax and have faith in God in such matters that you are helpless to bring about. When you worry and are fearful that events will not work out, you hinder God from working the matter out for you. Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 214.
God says you can have whatsoever you ask, and anyone who even suggests that you cannot have what you pray for is your enemy and the enemy of God. They are helping Satan rob you of what is rightfully yours. They cannot rob you of these blessings if you will make a decision to not listen to them, but rather have faith in God. You know now what you must do, so do it with all your heart and you will abundantly receive. God gives to all men liberally and upbraideth not, but He does require faith, nothing wavering. He will not answer on any other terms (Jas. 1:5-9; Heb. 11:6). If you do not get the answer, then you know what is wrong. Correct it, and you shall be heard.

Maintain this attitude and ignore any feeling, thought, or happening that is contrary to the answer. You can say “I believe” just as easily as you can say that it is hard to have faith. You can make every thought and word a positive act of faith. You can simply refuse any negative thought. Learn to build up faith instead of tear it down. State the truth in all that you say, and never think or express one thought contrary to the fact that you have been heard by God and that you have the answer. Though you cannot see the answer, it is still yours, for faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen (Heb. 11:1; Rom. 4:17-21). If you have faith you have the answer. Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 110-111.
You Know Ed

With you and I both believing the above I would say we are BOTH WOF! :angel:



Billy, while ever you believe the bible through your natural earthly experiences you will not receive from God what He has promised.

macca



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Justaned
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Re: Thank God for a know so salvation!

Post by Justaned »

bibleman wrote:
Justaned wrote: I don't recall disagreeing with Dake on faith. Admittedly I do disagree with Dake on a some points of theology.
Hi Justaned,

Thank God! You and I agree on Dake and his teaching of faith.
Believe that God wants you to have prosperity and health and the good things of life. Believe they are the will of God for you. Live in the faith of the things you want, for after all, “Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen” (Heb. 11:1). It is the principle of life that “calleth those things which be not as though they were” (Rom. 4:12-24). Faith is making a blueprint of what you want and working toward that end.
Before you get what you want
act as though you already had it.
Visualize it as yours.
See it with your mind and heart and put forth every effort to bring it about.
Turn over to God the things you cannot do, and He will bring them to pass. Just relax and have faith in God in such matters that you are helpless to bring about. When you worry and are fearful that events will not work out, you hinder God from working the matter out for you. Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 214.
God says you can have whatsoever you ask, and anyone who even suggests that you cannot have what you pray for is your enemy and the enemy of God. They are helping Satan rob you of what is rightfully yours. They cannot rob you of these blessings if you will make a decision to not listen to them, but rather have faith in God. You know now what you must do, so do it with all your heart and you will abundantly receive. God gives to all men liberally and upbraideth not, but He does require faith, nothing wavering. He will not answer on any other terms (Jas. 1:5-9; Heb. 11:6). If you do not get the answer, then you know what is wrong. Correct it, and you shall be heard.

Maintain this attitude and ignore any feeling, thought, or happening that is contrary to the answer. You can say “I believe” just as easily as you can say that it is hard to have faith. You can make every thought and word a positive act of faith. You can simply refuse any negative thought. Learn to build up faith instead of tear it down. State the truth in all that you say, and never think or express one thought contrary to the fact that you have been heard by God and that you have the answer. Though you cannot see the answer, it is still yours, for faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen (Heb. 11:1; Rom. 4:17-21). If you have faith you have the answer. Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 110-111.
You Know Ed,

With you and I both believing the above I would say we are BOTH WOF! :angel:

Bibleman
I wanted to wait until I had some time to respond to you.
First in the above quotes, unless I missed them, there is nothing said there that makes what was said unique to Word of Faith. There is no Metaphysics there at all.

Secondly I read them using the understanding found in scripture by keeping what was said in context with scripture.

I have no problem with what was said in these quotes as long as the person that reads it understands God is control, man is God's servant not the other way around, that man was created to worship God and that God will do what God knows is best for man not what man thinks is best for man.

If the person that reads those quotes can do so and have all his trust in God and not in something he as man possesses then I see nothing wrong.

Personally when I pray I pray trusting in God, not in my faith, not in any ability I have. I also pray the problem not the solution I want God enact. Why because I realize God is more creative, more knowledgable and more loving to me than I can be to myself. My way may sound right to me but I know God's way is far better.

So if you accept those quotes as I do then yes we do believe in basically the same kind of faith.



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