Dake Bible Discussion BoardSaved!, Sinned! What now

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macca
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Re: Saved!, Sinned! What now

Post by macca »

Hello Ed.
What was Jesus talking about in Luke. 19:1-10; ?
Was that a different type of salvation?

Macca



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Justaned
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Re: Saved!, Sinned! What now

Post by Justaned »

macca wrote:Hello Ed.
What was Jesus talking about in Luke. 19:1-10; ?
Was that a different type of salvation?

Macca
If this was salvation then why did Jesus have to go to the cross if this man was saved before?
Answer that question.



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Justaned
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Re: Saved!, Sinned! What now

Post by Justaned »

Again everyone is saying I'm wrong that saved people can sin lose their salvation, confess their sin and repent and be saved again.

Okay then explain
Hebrews 6:4-6 (NKJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
emphasis mine

And it isn't said only once but repeated again in
Hebrews 10:26-27 (NKJV)
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
emphasis mine

Everyone keeps giving me the false teaching of Backslidding where preachers wants us to believe we ride a roller coaster of salvation damnation. We are saved when we live like they say we should live and are damned to eteranl damnation when we don't.

Scripture clearly states that salvation can be lost. But it also is just as clear saying once salvation is lost there is nothing left to save us again.



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Justaned
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Re: Saved!, Sinned! What now

Post by Justaned »

Ironman wrote:Your good at it, I'll give you that. I never hijaked the thread??

You asked in the thread you accuse me of hijaking;
I don't recall accusing you of anything. I said I started this thread to prevent the other thread from being hijacked. I didn't mention a name.

If that felt accusational to you I'm sorry you felt that way but that is your problem not mine.



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Justaned
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Re: Saved!, Sinned! What now

Post by Justaned »

Ironman said in another thread
Wheather Jesus had died or not, makes no difference. Scripture CLEARLY STATES, Judas was a saved man.

"Jesus Himself acknowledged to the Father that of those whom the Father had given Him, Judas was the only one whom He had "LOST."

"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." (John 17:12). All tis was said by Jesus before He went into the garden and was betrayed and was arrested.

Judas had his name removed from the book of life as soon as he comitted suicide and hung himself. There was no repentence after he did that.

Jesus could not have lost Judas if Judas was not saved. What dont you get about that???????
I do get that but nowhere does it even remotely suggest that Judas repented

That has been my argument. Not whether a truly save person can lose their salvation ( I beleive they can) What I dispute is that they can ever get saved again. Scripture clearly says they can not.


Also Judas and Peter for that matter are exceptions they were not saved under the New Covenant at the point in time they sinned.



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Justaned
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Re: Saved!, Sinned! What now

Post by Justaned »

dolph wrote:
Justaned wrote:Again everyone is saying I'm wrong that saved people can sin lose their salvation, confess their sin and repent and be saved again.

Okay then explain
Hebrews 6:4-6 (NKJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
emphasis mine

And it isn't said only once but repeated again in
Hebrews 10:26-27 (NKJV)
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
emphasis mine

Everyone keeps giving me the false teaching of Backslidding where preachers wants us to believe we ride a roller coaster of salvation damnation. We are saved when we live like they say we should live and are damned to eteranl damnation when we don't.

Scripture clearly states that salvation can be lost. But it also is just as clear saying once salvation is lost there is nothing left to save us again.
Ed, I think these verses above are so strong against a person getting a second chance that they trump Dake's scriptures. But there really does seem to be a contradiction in scripture. I agree with Ironman that Peter and Judas were saved before they sinned. God always had a remnant of believers simply by believing in God like Abraham or looking forward to the coming Messiah or the cross.
Peter and Judas could not have been saved as salvation requires remission of sin. They were in sin, their sins had not been paid. Scripture says the wages of sin or the price of sin is death. A sacrifice had to be made. An animal sacrifice only paid for the year. It required the blood of an eternal sacrifice, yes was the only eternal being that was perfect (without blemish) that offered His blood on the altar of God. Without that blood the penalty for sin still existed and Peter and Judas still owed it.

The fact they had the Holy Spirit on them does not prove anything Elijah and Elisha raised the dead, stopped the rain, called down fire but they never claimed to be saved. Only righteous in the eyes of God awaiting that which would save them the Messiah.



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Re: Saved!, Sinned! What now

Post by bibleman »

Justaned wrote:
dolph wrote:
Justaned wrote:Again everyone is saying I'm wrong that saved people can sin lose their salvation, confess their sin and repent and be saved again.

Okay then explain
Hebrews 6:4-6 (NKJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
emphasis mine

And it isn't said only once but repeated again in
Hebrews 10:26-27 (NKJV)
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
emphasis mine

Everyone keeps giving me the false teaching of Backslidding where preachers wants us to believe we ride a roller coaster of salvation damnation. We are saved when we live like they say we should live and are damned to eteranl damnation when we don't.

Scripture clearly states that salvation can be lost. But it also is just as clear saying once salvation is lost there is nothing left to save us again.
Ed, I think these verses above are so strong against a person getting a second chance that they trump Dake's scriptures. But there really does seem to be a contradiction in scripture. I agree with Ironman that Peter and Judas were saved before they sinned. God always had a remnant of believers simply by believing in God like Abraham or looking forward to the coming Messiah or the cross.
Peter and Judas could not have been saved as salvation requires remission of sin. They were in sin, their sins had not been paid. Scripture says the wages of sin or the price of sin is death. A sacrifice had to be made. An animal sacrifice only paid for the year. It required the blood of an eternal sacrifice, yes was the only eternal being that was perfect (without blemish) that offered His blood on the altar of God. Without that blood the penalty for sin still existed and Peter and Judas still owed it.

The fact they had the Holy Spirit on them does not prove anything Elijah and Elisha raised the dead, stopped the rain, called down fire but they never claimed to be saved. Only righteous in the eyes of God awaiting that which would save them the Messiah.
Hi Ed,

Luke 7:44-48 (KJV) 44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.
45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.
46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.


So you are saying that this woman's sins were NOT forgiven?


God bless
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Justaned
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Re: Saved!, Sinned! What now

Post by Justaned »

bibleman wrote:
Justaned wrote:
dolph wrote:
Justaned wrote:Again everyone is saying I'm wrong that saved people can sin lose their salvation, confess their sin and repent and be saved again.

Okay then explain
Hebrews 6:4-6 (NKJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
emphasis mine

And it isn't said only once but repeated again in
Hebrews 10:26-27 (NKJV)
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
emphasis mine

Everyone keeps giving me the false teaching of Backslidding where preachers wants us to believe we ride a roller coaster of salvation damnation. We are saved when we live like they say we should live and are damned to eteranl damnation when we don't.

Scripture clearly states that salvation can be lost. But it also is just as clear saying once salvation is lost there is nothing left to save us again.
Ed, I think these verses above are so strong against a person getting a second chance that they trump Dake's scriptures. But there really does seem to be a contradiction in scripture. I agree with Ironman that Peter and Judas were saved before they sinned. God always had a remnant of believers simply by believing in God like Abraham or looking forward to the coming Messiah or the cross.
Peter and Judas could not have been saved as salvation requires remission of sin. They were in sin, their sins had not been paid. Scripture says the wages of sin or the price of sin is death. A sacrifice had to be made. An animal sacrifice only paid for the year. It required the blood of an eternal sacrifice, yes was the only eternal being that was perfect (without blemish) that offered His blood on the altar of God. Without that blood the penalty for sin still existed and Peter and Judas still owed it.

The fact they had the Holy Spirit on them does not prove anything Elijah and Elisha raised the dead, stopped the rain, called down fire but they never claimed to be saved. Only righteous in the eyes of God awaiting that which would save them the Messiah.
Hi Ed,

Luke 7:44-48 (KJV) 44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.
45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.
46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.


So you are saying that this woman's sins were NOT forgiven?
Nope but they hadn't yet been paid for. Her admittance into heaven which requires sinless perfection has not yet been paid. Her sins still required the death of Jesus to seal the covenant that would give her admittance into heaven.

Jesus could talk in the declarative about her salvation because Jesus knew He was going to die as payment for her sins that would give her admittance into heaven.
Last edited by Justaned on Sat May 18, 2013 2:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.



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Justaned
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Re: Saved!, Sinned! What now

Post by Justaned »

dolph wrote:
bibleman wrote:
Justaned wrote:
dolph wrote:
Justaned wrote:Again everyone is saying I'm wrong that saved people can sin lose their salvation, confess their sin and repent and be saved again.

Okay then explain
Hebrews 6:4-6 (NKJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
emphasis mine

And it isn't said only once but repeated again in
Hebrews 10:26-27 (NKJV)
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
emphasis mine

Everyone keeps giving me the false teaching of Backslidding where preachers wants us to believe we ride a roller coaster of salvation damnation. We are saved when we live like they say we should live and are damned to eteranl damnation when we don't.

Scripture clearly states that salvation can be lost. But it also is just as clear saying once salvation is lost there is nothing left to save us again.
Ed, I think these verses above are so strong against a person getting a second chance that they trump Dake's scriptures. But there really does seem to be a contradiction in scripture. I agree with Ironman that Peter and Judas were saved before they sinned. God always had a remnant of believers simply by believing in God like Abraham or looking forward to the coming Messiah or the cross.
Peter and Judas could not have been saved as salvation requires remission of sin. They were in sin, their sins had not been paid. Scripture says the wages of sin or the price of sin is death. A sacrifice had to be made. An animal sacrifice only paid for the year. It required the blood of an eternal sacrifice, yes was the only eternal being that was perfect (without blemish) that offered His blood on the altar of God. Without that blood the penalty for sin still existed and Peter and Judas still owed it.

The fact they had the Holy Spirit on them does not prove anything Elijah and Elisha raised the dead, stopped the rain, called down fire but they never claimed to be saved. Only righteous in the eyes of God awaiting that which would save them the Messiah.
Hi Ed,

Luke 7:44-48 (KJV) 44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.
45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.
46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.


So you are saying that this woman's sins were NOT forgiven?
YES IRONMAN, In the eyes of God and through man's eye of faith these O.T. believers were saved. "Faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen."

Ed, you're being too technical and getting into semantics. These O.T. saints were as much saved as you and I.
Then why did Jesus have to die?



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Re: Saved!, Sinned! What now

Post by branham1965 »

dolph

if i sneak into a theatre to see a movie would that be the same as coming in the back door in assault fatigues and being a cold blooded demonic murderer????

and anyone anywhere who told you that about James not being up to Paul's is rubbish!!!that is hyper-dispensational error.
Peter in Acts 2 gave a mighty sermon which discussed THE DEATH BURIAL AND RESURRECTION OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!! people were saved in verses 2:36 ff.
after the miracle at the Beautiful Gate Peter preached what in Acts 3 and 4???the death and Resurrection of Jesus!!!!
EVERY Gospel sermon in Acts has the same message.


dolph wrote:So, is everyone in agreement except Ed that if a Christian "slips" and sins, when a driver cuts them off for example, that they have lost their salvation until they confess their sin and get born-again, again???

Personally, I don't think there is any difference between a tiny sin and murder, for example, or is there??

A third position is that James was one of the Jerusalem apostles and wasn't really up to par with the Pauline doctrines of simply faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ to be saved when he penned James 1:9. That we aren't under the Law. But Dake believes we are under the law of the N.T., all 1050 commandments.

Of course, all this could be academic. Practically speaking, my motto is, he who is led by the Spirit of God, he is a son of God and when the Holy Spirit convicts me of a sin I have committed, I confess it to my High Priest, Jesus.



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