Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Sovereignty of God

[Justaned]

Proverbs 16:4 (NKJV)
4 The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.

Proverbs 26:10 (NKJV)
10 The great God who formed everything Gives the fool his hire and the transgressor his wages.

[branham1965]

thoses verses are in perfect God harmony to the God fearing.Psalm 24:15 says the secret of the LORD is with those who fear Him.FEAR HIM.not rebels or devils.

i told a fellow on a secular open forum that the Bible is a closed sealed Book to the wicked.he was a very proud God hating blasphemer.
he attacked me and my Lord .

Reubens book "Can you trust God?Understanding God's Sovereignty." is

Reuben Egolf on Amazon.

his new book "The Voice Within ;Understanding Conscience" and Dr.Lester Sumrall's book Conscience :The Scales of Eternal Justice.

[victoryword]

Proverbs 16:4 (NKJV)
4 The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.

Proverbs 26:10 (NKJV)
10 The great God who formed everything Gives the fool his hire and the transgressor his wages.

Prov. 16:4 is NOT saying that God created the wicked.

Truly, this only I have found: That God made man upright, But they have sought out many schemes.” (Eccl. 7:31)

Prov. 16:4 is better understood as saying that God has created the laws of sowing and reaping and basically the outcome of wicked acts: Everything the Lord has made has its destiny; and the destiny of the wicked is destruction. (Good News Translation)

[Justaned]

Proverbs 16:4 (NKJV)
4 The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.

Proverbs 26:10 (NKJV)
10 The great God who formed everything Gives the fool his hire and the transgressor his wages.

Prov. 16:4 is NOT saying that God created the wicked.

Truly, this only I have found: That God made man upright, But they have sought out many schemes.” (Eccl. 7:31)

Prov. 16:4 is better understood as saying that God has created the laws of sowing and reaping and basically the outcome of wicked acts: Everything the Lord has made has its destiny; and the destiny of the wicked is destruction. (Good News Translation)

I guess if we look long enough we can probably find a translation that supports universalism and such.

The point is God has created all things, be they good or wicked. What God didn't do is make them wicked. that was their choice. But don't weaken God to support a false theology. God is in control and God is all powerful. Why else would you pray to God? If you didn't think God is in control what do you expect Him to do?

[victoryword]

Prov. 16:4 is NOT saying that God created the wicked.

Truly, this only I have found: That God made man upright, But they have sought out many schemes.” (Eccl. 7:31)

Prov. 16:4 is better understood as saying that God has created the laws of sowing and reaping and basically the outcome of wicked acts: Everything the Lord has made has its destiny; and the destiny of the wicked is destruction. (Good News Translation)

I guess if we look long enough we can probably find a translation that supports universalism and such.

Notice that I first quoted Eccl. 7:31 in the same Bible version as you quoted Prov. 16:4. This means that there is a contradiction. Solomon is said to have written both passages so it is unlikely that he would contradict himself. Therefore, one of the passages has to have been misinterpreted into English. If God made man upright then He could not have made him wicked. Since numerous other KJV passages such as John 8:44; 1 John 2:15-17; James 1:13, and many more makes it clear that God is neither the author or creator of evil then I must conclude that you have misunderstood and misquoted Prov. 16:4. Thus, an alternative interpretation was in order and your red herring is refuted.

The point is God has created all things, be they good or wicked. What God didn't do is make them wicked. that was their choice. But don't weaken God to support a false theology. God is in control and God is all powerful. Why else would you pray to God? If you didn't think God is in control what do you expect Him to do?

My "theology" is BIble-based. Since Jesus said that God's Word is TRUTH (John 17:17) then I could not be advocating a false theology. IN your attempts to "strengthen" God you attribute to Him things He has never said about Himself and that actually contradicts what He reveals concerning Himself. Therefore, I submit to you that your contradictions of the BIble are what is promoting a false theology.

Take for example the blatant lie that "God is in control". No, He is NOT. God delegated control to man:

• Genesis 1
  26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Dominion is "the power or right of governing and controlling; sovereign authority. " God gave that to man and never took it away. Therefore, He is NOT in control. The reason why this world is in such a mess is that MAN is in control and being influenced by Satan who is currently prince of this world because man has stupidly abdicated his "control" to him. To claim that God is in control is to blame Him for this mess.

I hate your type of theology because it blames my wonderful Father for something He has nothing whatsoever to do with.

[Justaned]

Prov. 16:4 is NOT saying that God created the wicked.

Truly, this only I have found: That God made man upright, But they have sought out many schemes.” (Eccl. 7:31)

Prov. 16:4 is better understood as saying that God has created the laws of sowing and reaping and basically the outcome of wicked acts: Everything the Lord has made has its destiny; and the destiny of the wicked is destruction. (Good News Translation)

I guess if we look long enough we can probably find a translation that supports universalism and such.

Notice that I first quoted Eccl. 7:31 in the same Bible version as you quoted Prov. 16:4. This means that there is a contradiction. Solomon is said to have written both passages so it is unlikely that he would contradict himself. Therefore, one of the passages has to have been misinterpreted into English. If God made man upright then He could not have made him wicked. Since numerous other KJV passages such as John 8:44; 1 John 2:15-17; James 1:13, and many more makes it clear that God is neither the author or creator of evil then I must conclude that you have misunderstood and misquoted Prov. 16:4. Thus, an alternative interpretation was in order and your red herring is refuted.

The point is God has created all things, be they good or wicked. What God didn't do is make them wicked. that was their choice. But don't weaken God to support a false theology. God is in control and God is all powerful. Why else would you pray to God? If you didn't think God is in control what do you expect Him to do?

My "theology" is BIble-based. Since Jesus said that God's Word is TRUTH (John 17:17) then I could not be advocating a false theology. IN your attempts to "strengthen" God you attribute to Him things He has never said about Himself and that actually contradicts what He reveals concerning Himself. Therefore, I submit to you that your contradictions of the BIble are what is promoting a false theology.

Take for example the blatant lie that "God is in control". No, He is NOT. God delegated control to man:

• Genesis 1
  26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Dominion is "the power or right of governing and controlling; sovereign authority. " God gave that to man and never took it away. Therefore, He is NOT in control. The reason why this world is in such a mess is that MAN is in control and being influenced by Satan who is currently prince of this world because man has stupidly abdicated his "control" to him. To claim that God is in control is to blame Him for this mess.

I hate your type of theology because it blames my wonderful Father for something He has nothing whatsoever to do with.

If you really believe someone other than God is in control then why do you pray? What do you expect a powerless God to do? Answer that question.

[Justaned]

Dominion is "the power or right of governing and controlling; sovereign authority. " God gave that to man and never took it away. Therefore, He is NOT in control. The reason why this world is in such a mess is that MAN is in control and being influenced by Satan who is currently prince of this world because man has stupidly abdicated his "control" to him. To claim that God is in control is to blame Him for this mess.

I hate your type of theology because it blames my wonderful Father for something He has nothing whatsoever to do with.

Dominion is dominion. Sovereign authority is Sovereign Authority. If God wanted man to have Sovereign Authority he would have gave it to man. However he gave man dominion that meant man could rule over the things of this earth, however the Sovereign Authority of the earth was retained by God. How else could God have created the Flood and killed everything except those he desired to perserve?
It was God that commanded the ground to send up water, for the mountains to move, it was God that commanded the rain to fall. Not man but God who was in Sovereign authority.

By the way God sent the flood to kill every one does that make him bad in your book. Remember there was tiny nursing babies that died horrible deaths in the flood. When God commanded the Israelites to kill every living thing did that make God bad? Remember while all were killed some probably died long lingering deaths from wounds.

Who are you to Judge God?

[victoryword]

If you really believe someone other than God is in control then why do you pray? What do you expect a powerless God to do? Answer that question.

The real question is, if God is controlling everything then why pray? Why waste time asking Him to do something when God has already determined what will be.

[Justaned]

If you really believe someone other than God is in control then why do you pray? What do you expect a powerless God to do? Answer that question.

The real question is, if God is controlling everything then why pray? Why waste time asking Him to do something when God has already determined what will be.

I never said God determines what we do, only that God knows what we are going to do and has already incorporated it in his plan. If it is a choice on our part we must make that choice.

Again you didn't answer my question, if you believe God isn't in control why do you pray?