Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ When Christians Die of Cancer

[cpbeller]

Another thing...you say we should not care about this world, that we are just "passing through". I say, you condradict Christ Himself. He told us how to pray, and what to pray, did He not? What was His command to pray? Your will be done ON EARTH, as it is IN HEAVEN. Am I right? You have even declared there is no sickness in heaven, so is that God's will? Is that the Father's will, what is done in heaven? If it is, and there is no sickness in heaven, then therefore, we should be praying that there be no sickness in this earth.

[DeafManHealing]

On the topic of healing, you have my permission to pray and fast for my healing if you are a prayer & fasting warrior.

Please also pray for those battling everything from cancer to diabetes.

Thank you for prayer & fasting.

[Justaned]

Interesting to me, though, that if this world is so unimportant, Jesus still healed EVERY TIME He was asked, don't you think? Was there one instance in the Gospels where Jesus told someone who asked, "No, you gotta keep that disease while you are here on earth...but don't you worry!! Healing is for you when you die and move on to heaven!!"

IF Jesus is for us (and He is, right?), the healing EVERY TIME is for us, because Jesus healed EVERY TIME.

Did Jesus heal everytime he was asked? Where in the scripture does it state that? You are making an argument out of silence because scripture in silent on that.
I do agree that everyone that asked and had is request recorded in scripture Jesus did heal them. But how many asked and never had their request recorded.

Think about Jesus is at the pool of Bethsada and heals the man, do you think everyone else laid and said that was interesting? Or do you think they may have asked and we don't know what Jesus did.

We do know that when Jesus ascended into heaven this world still had sick and dying people in it. Be they Chrsitians or not.

Jesus does heal us, He heals us spiritually the minute we make him Lord and Savior of our lives. Jesus also heals us physically when our bodies are transformed from corruptable to incorruptable. Also Jesus heals us when it serves to glorify Him. Jesus also heals us by giving us doctors with talent to heal, medicine with the capability to heal and with the knowledge to use both of these. Where these don't exist Jesus often heals miracleously.

When I'm sick I pray for Jesus to heal me and then rest in my faith that God heard my prayer, knows the desires of my heart and will make even sickness work for my good because I love him and I am called to His purpose.

However I do know that one day unless Jesus returns I will die. I know that my death will be the result of disease that slowly destroys the body. That disease exists because man sinned against God and sin came into the world.

Jesus died so I would not have to suffer the consequences of that sin for eternity, however Jesus did not remove me from this world nor did Jesus removed sin for this world. So as long as I live in this world I'm living in a fallen world. This world is not my home, I care for it because it is God's creation as I am but I also know this world is going to be destroyed by fire.

My hope is not in this world my hope in heaven and it is Jesus Christ who died for me.

[macca]

When Christians Die of Cancer

Sickness doesn’t win when the suffering person is a Christian.

Doctors confirmed only 10 months ago that my friend Benny Benson had a malignant tumor in his spine. He underwent treatment, but in the end more tumors appeared. Nothing could stop the spread of the disease—not radiation, chemotherapy or surgery. He died on Jan. 31, and I spoke at his memorial service in New Hampshire on Feb. 12.
I still can’t believe Benny is gone.

More than 500 people attended his funeral. Many of them were college students who had been discipled through Benny’s campus outreach, which he carried out with his wife, Cindy. Like so many of Benny’s other friends and family members, these students had prayed for Benny to be miraculously healed of the cancer.
But in the end, Benny got the ultimate healing—by stepping into eternity.

Whenever loved ones are taken from us we ask hard questions. Why does God allow cancer to ravage people’s bodies? Why doesn’t He always heal when we pray? Why would He let a guy like Benny, who was only 58, get sick with cancer when he was seeing amazing results in his campus ministry?

Those of us who wear the charismatic label don’t do well when people die of sickness. We’ve been taught that God “always” heals, especially if we pray according to the latest 1-2-3 formula, if we break every generational curse, and if we bind every demonic power that might be lurking behind the surface.

Miraculous healings do happen sometimes. But when they don’t, we assume we said the wrong prayer, didn’t exert enough faith or harbored some secret sin in our hearts. We trivialize the Lord by turning Him into a genie in a bottle. We think He exists to perform miracles for us—as long as we rub the lamp the right way and say the right magic words. But that is a silly and immature way to approach an omnipotent God.

I didn’t have the answers to such heavy theological questions when I spoke at Benny’s funeral yesterday. I was mostly concerned about whether I would start sobbing as soon as I read my first text from the Bible. (Fortunately my voice only cracked a few times.)

I prefaced my remarks by admitting that I have never been a fan of the book of Job. I don’t like reading about a righteous man who lost everything—including his health. I don’t like reading about bad things happening to good people—mainly because I don’t want to face suffering myself.

But the book of Job is in the Bible. And it is near the middle of the Bible for a reason. Just as the book of Psalms reminds us that praise will get us through the hard times, Job reminds us that we must keep eternity in mind when we walk through trials. Job had to learn to see life—and death—from God’s wide perspective instead of his puny human viewpoint.

Job’s faith was tested like gold. After he experienced incredible loss, he was able to say: “As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last He will take his stand on the earth. Even after my skin is destroyed, yet from my flesh I shall see God” (Job 19:25-26, NASB).

Job made that ultimate faith confession in his darkest moment. He stared poverty, hardship, sickness and death in the face and declared that regardless of his circumstances, he would be resurrected and would live eternally with the Lord. He was so secure in his personal relationship with God that the assaults and accusations of Satan did not shake him. He persevered. He held on to faith. And instead of focusing on his bleak circumstances he looked at his bright future in heaven.

That’s how I decided to approach Benny’s death. I refused to ask whether we prayed and fasted enough, whether the healing anointing was strong enough or whether we strained enough in our faith to produce a miracle. The greatest miracle occurred when Benny stepped from this life into the next and began an eternity with Christ. He now fully understands the words of Jesus in John 11:26: “And whoever lives and believes in Me will never die. (NIV)”

Of course we want our loved ones to be healed. Of course we should pray for miracles. But if God does not answer us the way we insist He should, we must rest in His all-knowing sovereignty and rejoice in the fact that Jesus has conquered death.

Please don’t minimize the wonder of Christ’s resurrection power. Yes, cancer happens. Sometimes it kills people. But cancer doesn’t win when the suffering person is a Christian. If the victim of a terminal illness knows Jesus, they will experience the most powerful of all of God’s miracles when they die. We will know the power of that resurrection, too, and we will join them one day in heaven’s paradise.

http://www.charismamag.com/blogs/fire-i ... -of-cancer

J. Lee Grady is the former editor of Charisma and the director of The Mordecai Project (themordecaiproject.org). His latest book is Fearless Daughters of the Bible. You can follow him on Twitter at leegrady.

Mr Grady is talking like a baptist who believes that we are called to suffer "sickness" for Christ, then when we are not healed they say it is God's will to be sick and die, after they have pleaded with God to get them out of this suffering that God ordained for them..

I believe this problem of unbelief on the part of these people can be mainly traced to Calvinism and the mindset it brings.

Back in Jesus's day they had no problem with healing as everywhere Jesus went he healed all that came to him, no-one did not receive healing that wanted to be healed.

But back then they had a problem with believing Jesus could and did forgive sins as well as heal. Matt. 9:1-8;

Now, even on this thread we have people doubting it is God's will to heal even though they do believe God forgives them of their sins?

Which is easer for God to do ????? forgive your sins or, heal your body????

If the sin you committed is gone why not the result of that sin in your body as well?

Or are you so proud of your thorn in the flesh that you will keep it so you can garner some sympathy from people around you, or are you getting assistance and don't want to look after yourself anymore but rely on the kindness of some people for your own purpose?

If you believe that healing is not the children's bread, then who's child are you??????

Or do you want to be a devil and fight God and try to prove that prayer does not work, faith is not enough, the atonement does not include healing, that Jesus did not heal everyone that came to him contrary to what is plainly written??????

macca

[graceforme]

Did Jesus heal everytime he was asked? Where in the scripture does it state that? You are making an argument out of silence because scripture in silent on that.
I do agree that everyone that asked and had is request recorded in scripture Jesus did heal them. But how many asked and never had their request recorded.

Think about Jesus is at the pool of Bethsada and heals the man, do you think everyone else laid and said that was interesting? Or do you think they may have asked and we don't know what Jesus did.

We do know that when Jesus ascended into heaven this world still had sick and dying people in it. Be they Chrsitians or not.

Jesus does heal us, He heals us spiritually the minute we make him Lord and Savior of our lives. Jesus also heals us physically when our bodies are transformed from corruptable to incorruptable. Also Jesus heals us when it serves to glorify Him. Jesus also heals us by giving us doctors with talent to heal, medicine with the capability to heal and with the knowledge to use both of these. Where these don't exist Jesus often heals miracleously.

When I'm sick I pray for Jesus to heal me and then rest in my faith that God heard my prayer, knows the desires of my heart and will make even sickness work for my good because I love him and I am called to His purpose.

However I do know that one day unless Jesus returns I will die. I know that my death will be the result of disease that slowly destroys the body. That disease exists because man sinned against God and sin came into the world.

Jesus died so I would not have to suffer the consequences of that sin for eternity, however Jesus did not remove me from this world nor did Jesus removed sin for this world. So as long as I live in this world I'm living in a fallen world. This world is not my home, I care for it because it is God's creation as I am but I also know this world is going to be destroyed by fire.

My hope is not in this world my hope in heaven and it is Jesus Christ who died for me.

Good words. Even Paul asked for the "thorn" to be removed - he prayed that way several times. God's answer? "My grace is sufficient for thee." There will always be those who will not receive an earthly healing. Just as Jesus said "The poor will always be with us", disease will always be with us - here on earth. But, we should be trusting that God always has a plan for our life, regardless of the physical infirmities we have to deal with. And God's plans are always perfect.

[DeafManHealing]

Macca, I have a question for you. If you prayed & fasted for an entire veteran's hospital full of wounded soldiers with missing limbs. Are they going to be healed ?

What about praying & fasting for the school for the blind & deaf to be emptied ?

At the school for the deaf, Every year, there are about 3 to 5 Deaf students or Deaf staff getting healed out of a school of maybe 500 to the biggest Deaf schools holding 1,500 students.

I may not have the correct understanding of healing when it comes to the Bible but this I do know is that Miracles do happen.

[macca]

Good words. Even Paul asked for the "thorn" to be removed - he prayed that way several times. God's answer? "My grace is sufficient for thee." There will always be those who will not receive an earthly healing. Just as Jesus said "The poor will always be with us", disease will always be with us - here on earth. But, we should be trusting that God always has a plan for our life, regardless of the physical infirmities we have to deal with. And God's plans are always perfect.

Paul's thorn, Graceforme, you equate Paul's thorn with sickness and disease.....

But Paul calls it "The messenger of Satan" to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 2 cor. 12:7; it was an angel of satan that followed Paul around and buffeted him when he was tempted to exalt himself. Paul lists these buffets in 2 cor. 11: 23-27; sickness and disease is not mentioned by Paul anywhere.

Do you think God would have respect of persons as far as Paul is concerned?

In Acts 10:38; How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power: Who went about DOING GOOD, AND HEALING ALL THAT WERE OPPRESSED OF THE DEVIL; FOR GOD WAS WITH HIM.

Jesus healed ALL that were oppressed of the devil so what makes you think Paul is any different from the All?

No where in the NT was anyone turned away from getting their healing or deliverance when they asked for it.

If you are going to use Paul's thorn as an excuse for your unbelief as far as healing goes, then where are your abundance of revelations, where are your Nt books that make up most of the nt?????


then at the end of your statement you put all the blame over onto God by stating "and God's plans are always perfect" so by this i am led to believe sickness comes from God?????

macca

[macca]

Interesting to me, though, that if this world is so unimportant, Jesus still healed EVERY TIME He was asked, don't you think? Was there one instance in the Gospels where Jesus told someone who asked, "No, you gotta keep that disease while you are here on earth...but don't you worry!! Healing is for you when you die and move on to heaven!!"

IF Jesus is for us (and He is, right?), the healing EVERY TIME is for us, because Jesus healed EVERY TIME.

Did Jesus heal everytime he was asked? Where in the scripture does it state that? You are making an argument out of silence because scripture in silent on that.
I do agree that everyone that asked and had is request recorded in scripture Jesus did heal them. But how many asked and never had their request recorded.

Think about Jesus is at the pool of Bethsada and heals the man, do you think everyone else laid and said that was interesting? Or do you think they may have asked and we don't know what Jesus did.

We do know that when Jesus ascended into heaven this world still had sick and dying people in it. Be they Chrsitians or not.

Jesus does heal us, He heals us spiritually the minute we make him Lord and Savior of our lives. Jesus also heals us physically when our bodies are transformed from corruptable to incorruptable. Also Jesus heals us when it serves to glorify Him. Jesus also heals us by giving us doctors with talent to heal, medicine with the capability to heal and with the knowledge to use both of these. Where these don't exist Jesus often heals miracleously.

When I'm sick I pray for Jesus to heal me and then rest in my faith that God heard my prayer, knows the desires of my heart and will make even sickness work for my good because I love him and I am called to His purpose.

However I do know that one day unless Jesus returns I will die. I know that my death will be the result of disease that slowly destroys the body. That disease exists because man sinned against God and sin came into the world.

Jesus died so I would not have to suffer the consequences of that sin for eternity, however Jesus did not remove me from this world nor did Jesus removed sin for this world. So as long as I live in this world I'm living in a fallen world. This world is not my home, I care for it because it is God's creation as I am but I also know this world is going to be destroyed by fire.

My hope is not in this world my hope in heaven and it is Jesus Christ who died for me.

Ed who gave you the right to quote from between the lines of the word of God to find scripture to back up your damnable heresy that Jesus did not heal all??????????

only a devil would come up with that lie from hell.. is that what you are??????

macca

[macca]

Macca, I have a question for you. If you prayed & fasted for an entire veteran's hospital full of wounded soldiers with missing limbs. Are they going to be healed ?

What about praying & fasting for the school for the blind & deaf to be emptied ?

At the school for the deaf, Every year, there are about 3 to 5 Deaf students or Deaf staff getting healed out of a school of maybe 500 to the biggest Deaf schools holding 1,500 students.

I may not have the correct understanding of healing when it comes to the Bible but this I do know is that Miracles do happen.

Hello deaf Man, NO..... If you will take notice of Jesus's ministry He stated "Whatsoever i speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so i speak." "Believest thou not that i am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwells in me, He does the works." "the Son can do nothing of himself" "I can of my own self do nothing"

Before He left he promised the Holy Spirit and the Spirit would teach us and show us what to say and do,, as the Father showed Jesus...
If the Spirit does not show you to go into a hospital to heal anyone in there it is a waste of time even thinking to do it..
Without the leading and anointing of the Holy Spirit we can do nothing in ourselves and we are deceived if we think otherwise.

macca

[branham1965]

if im terminal.keep away the ""we know God CAN heal"" folks.
that kind of phony faith will not work!!!!!
"He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief but was strong in faith giving glory to God and being fully persuaded that what he had promised he was able to perform."Rom 4
faith gets results.
faith gets answers.
faith in God of course heals the sick...and brings miracles to those in need.
you ask these well i know God heals if he wants to bunch.take them to MARK 16.THEY WILL DENY IT EVERY TIME.THE APOSTLES PRAYED TO GOD AND BEGGED HIM FOR HELP AND TO BY STRETCH FORTH THY HAND TO HEAL AND THAT SIGNS AND WONDERS MAY BE DONE IN THE NAME OF THY HOLY CHILD JESUS.
remember this is the Dake board.not John Macarthurs or some other faithless goober. +pieface +pieface +pieface

Interesting to me, though, that if this world is so unimportant, Jesus still healed EVERY TIME He was asked, don't you think? Was there one instance in the Gospels where Jesus told someone who asked, "No, you gotta keep that disease while you are here on earth...but don't you worry!! Healing is for you when you die and move on to heaven!!"

IF Jesus is for us (and He is, right?), the healing EVERY TIME is for us, because Jesus healed EVERY TIME.