Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ A breath of sound doctrine concerning Daniel's 70 Weeks

[Ray]

Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:20 pm by Ray
Rocky wrote:
Bibleman, I think Ray may be coming from a replacement theology perspective, though I am no sure it just seems that way to me. If that is the case the 70 weeks of Daniel is not going to make much sense to an individual that believes in this doctrine, because as well you know replacement theology does not separate the promises for Israel and the church. I maybe off, perhaps Ray can explain his perspective on this.



Rocky,
*Do you believe that 69 weeks of the 70 week (490 year) Prophecy given Daniel through the angel Gabriel (Dan 9:24-27) have been fulfilled and that there is a gap of 2000+ years between the 69th and the 70th week which is this present time we now live in, and that the 70th week is still yet to be fulfilled ?

*Do you believe the time of JESUS' Ministry and Sacrificial Death are included in this 70 week Prophecy time frame ? If so where in (in what part of) the 70 weeks did JESUS' Ministry and Sacrificial Death occur ?

yes and yes the 69th, week we in in now, if I understand what you the asking, the questions are a bit rhetorical though. So you don't believe in a literal 1,000 year reign or a tribulation or a rapture? I also would bet you believe that the book of Revelations was fulfilled during Nero's reign. Are you a roman catholic? And I mean no disrespect, I only ask that because my Father is Roma catholic and he believes the way you do about the 70 weeks of Daniel.

Hey Rocky,
I would ask that you read from the thread "Daniel 9:26" on page 3 of this forum. As I would repeat much from there when discussing Daniel's 70 weeks.

There was alot brought out from different points of views dealing with the 70 weeks mentioned in Daniel 9:24-26.

It is somewhat of a debate dealing with this subject, and I would hope you would read it and let me know what you think.

I think it is about 14 pages long but is a good (I think) study on the 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24-27.

If there are any questions you would like to ask me about my beliefs and why I believe that way I do I would be happy to try to answer them as best as I can, But AFTER you read the Thread titled "Daniel 9:26" on page 3 of this forum.

[Rocky]

Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:20 pm by Ray
Rocky wrote:
Bibleman, I think Ray may be coming from a replacement theology perspective, though I am no sure it just seems that way to me. If that is the case the 70 weeks of Daniel is not going to make much sense to an individual that believes in this doctrine, because as well you know replacement theology does not separate the promises for Israel and the church. I maybe off, perhaps Ray can explain his perspective on this.



Rocky,
*Do you believe that 69 weeks of the 70 week (490 year) Prophecy given Daniel through the angel Gabriel (Dan 9:24-27) have been fulfilled and that there is a gap of 2000+ years between the 69th and the 70th week which is this present time we now live in, and that the 70th week is still yet to be fulfilled ?

*Do you believe the time of JESUS' Ministry and Sacrificial Death are included in this 70 week Prophecy time frame ? If so where in (in what part of) the 70 weeks did JESUS' Ministry and Sacrificial Death occur ?

yes and yes the 69th, week we in in now, if I understand what you the asking, the questions are a bit rhetorical though. So you don't believe in a literal 1,000 year reign or a tribulation or a rapture? I also would bet you believe that the book of Revelations was fulfilled during Nero's reign. Are you a roman catholic? And I mean no disrespect, I only ask that because my Father is Roma catholic and he believes the way you do about the 70 weeks of Daniel.

Hey Rocky,
I would ask that you read from the thread "Daniel 9:26" on page 3 of this forum. As I would repeat much from there when discussing Daniel's 70 weeks.

There was alot brought out from different points of views dealing with the 70 weeks mentioned in Daniel 9:24-26.

It is somewhat of a debate dealing with this subject, and I would hope you would read it and let me know what you think.

I think it is about 14 pages long but is a good (I think) study on the 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24-27.

If there are any questions you would like to ask me about my beliefs and why I believe that way I do I would be happy to try to answer them as best as I can, But AFTER you read the Thread titled "Daniel 9:26" on page 3 of this forum.

I think your replies on that thread are well thought out, but I never really agreed with preterism , I believe it is very unbiblical. And again what denomination are you? You seem to believe in the Roman Catholic view of the 70 weeks of Daniel and in eschatology in general? And, would you please answer the questions I asked in my reply above? I notice in the thread you started, that you directed me to, you never really answered anyone's question on there. And on another note branham1969 if you see this i want to say I thoroughly enjoyed your replies on Rays thread on Daniel 9:26. I about fell out of my chair laughing and believe me that is meant as a compliment. I love how you express yourself on here. I think without you on here this forum might would be a little dull.

[Ray]

Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:20 pm by Ray
Rocky wrote:
Bibleman, I think Ray may be coming from a replacement theology perspective, though I am no sure it just seems that way to me. If that is the case the 70 weeks of Daniel is not going to make much sense to an individual that believes in this doctrine, because as well you know replacement theology does not separate the promises for Israel and the church. I maybe off, perhaps Ray can explain his perspective on this.



Rocky,
*Do you believe that 69 weeks of the 70 week (490 year) Prophecy given Daniel through the angel Gabriel (Dan 9:24-27) have been fulfilled and that there is a gap of 2000+ years between the 69th and the 70th week which is this present time we now live in, and that the 70th week is still yet to be fulfilled ?

*Do you believe the time of JESUS' Ministry and Sacrificial Death are included in this 70 week Prophecy time frame ? If so where in (in what part of) the 70 weeks did JESUS' Ministry and Sacrificial Death occur ?

yes and yes the 69th, week we in in now, if I understand what you the asking, the questions are a bit rhetorical though. So you don't believe in a literal 1,000 year reign or a tribulation or a rapture? I also would bet you believe that the book of Revelations was fulfilled during Nero's reign. Are you a roman catholic? And I mean no disrespect, I only ask that because my Father is Roma catholic and he believes the way you do about the 70 weeks of Daniel.

Hey Rocky,
I would ask that you read from the thread "Daniel 9:26" on page 3 of this forum. As I would repeat much from there when discussing Daniel's 70 weeks.

There was alot brought out from different points of views dealing with the 70 weeks mentioned in Daniel 9:24-26.

It is somewhat of a debate dealing with this subject, and I would hope you would read it and let me know what you think.

I think it is about 14 pages long but is a good (I think) study on the 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24-27.

If there are any questions you would like to ask me about my beliefs and why I believe that way I do I would be happy to try to answer them as best as I can, But AFTER you read the Thread titled "Daniel 9:26" on page 3 of this forum.

I think your replies on that thread are well thought out, but I never really agreed with preterism , I believe it is very unbiblical. And again what denomination are you? You seem to believe in the Roman Catholic view of the 70 weeks of Daniel and in eschatology in general? And, would you please answer the questions I asked in my reply above? I notice in the thread you started, that you directed me to, you never really answered anyone's question on there. And on another note branham1969 if you see this i want to say I thoroughly enjoyed your replies on Rays thread on Daniel 9:26. I about fell out of my chair laughing and believe me that is meant as a compliment. I love how you express yourself on here. I think without you on here this forum might would be a little dull.

Rocky,
I am not preterist.
Daniel 9:25-26 state that JESUS Messiah's Ministry and Sacrificial death occurred AFTER the 69th week, How do you deal with that fact.
Should you pretend you don't see it because it doesn't line up with your doctrine? Or just try to forget about it and not talk about it because it is not what the majority believes? What about it?


As for a little background on me, I was asked this by Billy some time ago and here is a copy and paste from that post.

I was born into a Strict Catholic home, went to a Catholic elementry school,learned and practiced the Catholic Religion as a child. I always had a hunger for the LORD and when I was about 15 I started to read and study the Bible outside of school and study on my own, well It didn't take long before I realized most of what I was taught by Catholic Church and School was Unbiblical and actually contrary to what the Scriptures Teach. At 17 I asked The LORD to take over my life ,to mold me into what HE intended for mankind to be. At that time I had a life changing expirience.The LORD JESUS came into my life and Changed me from the inside through HIS SPIRIT working in me, It was real tough at first being in my upper teen years I found myself in the ditch of life many times, But every time My LORD would pick me up dust me off and put me back on the road to seeking HIM and growing SPIRITUALLY.

As I grew older I couldn't get enough of HIS WORD as I was always Hungry for the Truth of The WORD , I left the Catholic Church and went to and belonged to an Assembly Of GOD Church for some time and have since moved to a nondenominational Church.

I have read and own many Bible commentaries, And the more I read from writers such as C.I. Scofield, Dwight Moody, Jimmy Swaggart, John Hagee, and such I realized (no Offence intended) their teachings on Eschatology was not what I was seeing in the Scriptures. As I began to read and buy some of the Older commentaries on Scripture I found these guys who wrote before the 1800's spoke of the same things I had been seeing in the Scriptures concerning Eschatology, Men such as John Wycliff, Matthew Henry, Jonathan Edwards, Cotton Mathers, John Wesley, John Calvin, Charles Hodge, Marvin Vincent, John Lightfoot, These are some of the Books I read today when I am not reading the Scriptures, I read and own several translations of the Bible, but again I find the older ones to be the most acurate. And I always read and study from a word for word translation, and never a thought for thought translation.

Favorite Ministers, I don't have any. Most all of the televagalists I see today (I think) are completely lost as many teach another JESUS other than what the Scriptures teach. and many are of the falling away spoken of in 2 Thess 2:3. Many worshiping Mannon and the things of this World, getting rich and don't even know The True GOD.

I've been Filled with The Spirit for 34 years now, And I will always Hunger for Our LORD and HIS WORD.

[branham1965]

that is a good post Ray.

you came from the heart.and exposed yourself.i understand you more.

thank you.

[branham1965]

Ray,

we know the Lord died for us.He was buried and He rose again 1 Cor 15:1ff.
and He is coming again.
then this mess is over.over!!!!!!!!!
would you please in layman's terms that's me for sure ...explain what you believe happens next in the plan of God????some of the names you posted were are great men.
i mentioned on here about Charles Haddon Spurgeon .he did not really mess with end time thing alot.other than telling folks to get ready for the Coming of Jesus.
i was dumbfounded to understand that some here dislike Spurgeon.
the prince of Preachers.i never heard a Protestant ever badmouth him.not ever .
i posted that 4 views on Eschatology were discussed in the Open Bible.in old and newer editions.
the response was no response.i find some peoples hardheadedness disgusting frankly.
and the Administrator told you to open your mind.
im asking from my heart as a friend Ray. thank you.

[Ray]

Ray,

we know the Lord died for us.He was buried and He rose again 1 Cor 15:1ff.
and He is coming again.
then this mess is over.over!!!!!!!!!
would you please in layman's terms that's me for sure ...explain what you believe happens next in the plan of God????some of the names you posted were are great men.
i mentioned on here about Charles Haddon Spurgeon .he did not really mess with end time thing alot.other than telling folks to get ready for the Coming of Jesus.
i was dumbfounded to understand that some here dislike Spurgeon.
the prince of Preachers.i never heard a Protestant ever badmouth him.not ever .
i posted that 4 views on Eschatology were discussed in the Open Bible.in old and newer editions.
the response was no response.i find some peoples hardheadedness disgusting frankly.
and the Administrator told you to open your mind.
im asking from my heart as a friend Ray. thank you.

Billy,
I believe the next event to occur is JESUS Our LORD coming on the clouds of Heaven, As the dead will rise first then we who are alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds, We all in Glorified Bodies as we are changed in an instant in the twinkling of an eye. The Corruptible putting on The Uncorruptible.
The Saints Gathered unto JESUS Our Salvation Coming In ALL HIS GLORY
The Wicked Destroyed by the Brightness of HIS Coming, having not glorified bodies.

I believe that Day will be "The Last Day" as we know it. As given in John 6:39,40,44,54, John 11:24, John 12:48.
A Day of Judgment of ALL
A Day of Eternal Reward
A Day of Eternal Punishment
A Day when ALL Enemies have been Destroyed including Death, When JESUS has put down ALL Rule, ALL Authority, and ALL Power.
A Day when JESUS Delivers The Kingdom To GOD THE ETERNAL FATHER
A Day when the Heavens and Earth will be made NEW
A Day We Shall See HIM AS HE IS , THE ANCIENT ONE, THE I AM, THE ETERNAL FATHER, THE KING OF KINGS THE LORD OF LORDS, HE WHO HAS THE MERCY TO SAVE A FALLEN WRETCH LIKE ME.

{I Know I am an open Target now and may not have done a good job explaining what you asked of me Billy, But I truly Believe words cannot come close to explaining what OUR LORD has for US who Love HIM.}

[branham1965]

thanks for the post Ray.
it is very informative.
i attended a Church when i was married that taught that position.

Shalom.

[Ray]

Not to Entrap or Intimidate, But I would like to ask a few questions that has not been clearly answered.

How do you interpret the word "unto" (until) in Daniel 9:25,where stated that from the time of the command to restore and build Jerusalem "unto" Messiah
there was to be 69 weeks (69 weeks was to pass until Messiah) ?

How do you interpret the word "after" in Daniel 9:26,where Messiah was cut off (crucified) "After" the 69th week ?

These two verses making known that JESUS' Ministry and death occured AFTER the 69th week, how does this fit into you belief of a future 70th week?

Do you believe Jesus' Ministry and Death are not included in the 70 weeks ?


Daniel 9:25-26
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined

[Ray]

(1) Christ was to be crucified at the end of the 69th week (Dan. 9:26).
Dake's Annotated Reference Bible.

Daniel 9:26
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined

Is the above statement made in the notes of The Dake Bible accurate?
If some event is said to occur "at the end" of a time period,(DARB notes)
Yet Scripture states the event is to occur "after" that time period. (KJB)

If an event occurs "at the end" of a time period is it the SAME as occuring "after" that time period ? Honestly?

[Ironman]

Billy, you said;

"Catholic nuns can be brutal.a few regiments of the ones who I knew personally could end all wars on earth."

.

They were called 'SISTERS OF MERCY' here? . . . another catholic lie?

They had about as much mercy as a pack of Hyenas on a kill! One little sister of MERCY broke a book which had a steel binder on its edge over my wifes head when she was a little girl, because she hit a wrong note whilst playing the piano. She split her head open!

I coundnt tell you what they did to me and others. It was like going to the Aushwitz concentration camp every day.

On Wednesdays they would march us all of the church saying hail maries, at the church we would do the stations of the cross and then say another thousand hail maries all the way back to Aushwitz. ? After all that preperation we were sent of to the horror of horrors, the Marist Brothers.